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Polar/BP Chargemaster Email: Latest Install and News

6K views 22 replies 9 participants last post by  Captain.Plummet 
#1 ·
Stay up-to-date with all the latest news and installations with our monthly newsletter from Polar; the UK's largest public charging network!

MINI joins the EV Experience Centre

The EV Experience Centre (EVEC) in Milton Keynes has welcomed MINI as a new OEM partner. This partnership comes as the EVEC enters its third year in operation, and includes 2 brand new MINI Countryman plug in hybrids for the Centre's test drive fleet.

"I am really excited for what our new MINI partnership will do for the EV Experience Centre and for the future adoption of electric vehicles." Ted Foster, EVEC manager.

Both MINI Countryman are now available for free short-term test drives and long-term test drives from £50.

Find out more: https://chargemaster.us9.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c619722764ff51339b58cfacc&id=226217347b&e=b8bb00abe8

Rapid chargers installed at Toby Carvery sites

50kW rapid chargers are now available at nine Toby Carvery sites across the UK, alongside 26 other units installed at various other M&B locations.

BP Chargemaster and Mitchells & Butlers announced their partnership earlier this year. Up to 200 rapid chargers are planned to be installed as part of a nationwide roll out at ideally located pubs and restaurants.

Find out more: https://chargemaster.us9.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c619722764ff51339b58cfacc&id=0c0bbc5cec&e=b8bb00abe8

BP Chargemaster chargers at the
BMW PGA Championship

It was fantastic to facilitate the electric vehicle charging at the BMW PGA Championships this month at Wentworth Golf Club.

Eight 7kW dual charging Fastcharge units were on site at the BMW owners car park and were used to charge visitors' PHEVs and Electric vehicles throughout the event.

Polar Customer Research Survey

We are conducting some research into how to improve our Polar App offering and would appreciate your valuable insight to help shape the future of Polar products.

The survey is voluntary and should take just 5 minutes of your time. Any information you provide will be kept completely anonymous and will not be used for marketing purposes.

Take Survey: https://chargemaster.us9.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c619722764ff51339b58cfacc&id=c875eeeb63&e=b8bb00abe8

New charge points installations

The Polar network continues to grow, with more and more charge point installations each month. We have installed 16 50kW Ultracharge and 7kW Fastcharge units in September, all now available on the Polar public network.

Ultracharge 50kW
Miller & Carter Sevenoaks, TN13 2EN
Toby Carvery Almondsbury, Bristol, BS32 4QB
Toby Carvery Worthing, BN14 9JN
The Sherwood, Fulwood, PR2 9GA
Ringwood Hall Hotel & Spa, Chesterfield, S43 1DQ
The Argosy, Derby, DE22 3HZ
The Red Deer, Glasgow, G68 9AW
Miller & Carter Parbold, Wigan, WN8 7TG
Toby Carvery Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, TN14 7AD
The Hollybrook, Derby, DE23 3TZ
Toby Carvery Leeds, LS26 8EJ
The Markeaton, Derby, DE22 2TF

Fastcharge 7kW
Inspire Luton Sports Village, Luton, LU2 8DD
George Steet, Clitheroe, BB7 9SW
New Street, Carnforth, LA5 9BU (2 units)

Visit our Polar live map for more information about each charge point and for cost per kWh. https://chargemaster.us9.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c619722764ff51339b58cfacc&id=0d3815f52f&e=b8bb00abe8
 
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#2 ·
Carnforth must be have more chargers than anywhere else of its size.
With two Instavolts (50kW) , one Polar (50kW) and now two more 7kW chargers...
 
#5 ·
D1Q said:
I love a good Toby Carvery. I find the food improves the longer it's left under a hot lamp
Well I guess it is easy for people to start charging and then at the 90 minut mark go and move their car... although I suspect they don't need the full 90 minutes and this is where I think a 50kW charger at such a place is not a good idea... It should have been multiple bays each providing 20kW of charging... immediately it means they could have put twice the number of charging bays for the same power supply.

Instead of 2x 50kW DC chargers (as an example), put in 5x 20kW DC chargers and then give the users 2 hours time limit. Its a win-win for everyone in comparison to 2x 50kW and 90 minute charging time. More money for the supplier, more EV charging, more EV users visiting, etc. etc.
 
#6 ·
fa147 said:
D1Q said:
I love a good Toby Carvery. I find the food improves the longer it's left under a hot lamp
It should have been multiple bays each providing 20kW of charging... immediately it means they could have put twice the number of charging bays for the same power supply.
That might work for some but I don't think the I Pace can charge at 20kW

https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/jaguar-i-pace-charging-guide/

"The Jaguar I-Pace is fitted with a 7 kW on-board charger for Type 2 AC charging, in addition to rapid 100 kW DC capability. This means that even when connected to a fast charger with a rated output above 7 kW, the I-Pace will only be able to charge at 7 kW."
 
#7 ·
D1Q said:
fa147 said:
D1Q said:
I love a good Toby Carvery. I find the food improves the longer it's left under a hot lamp
It should have been multiple bays each providing 20kW of charging... immediately it means they could have put twice the number of charging bays for the same power supply.
That might work for some but I don't think the I Pace can charge at 20kW

https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/jaguar-i-pace-charging-guide/

"The Jaguar I-Pace is fitted with a 7 kW on-board charger for Type 2 AC charging, in addition to rapid 100 kW DC capability. This means that even when connected to a fast charger with a rated output above 7 kW, the I-Pace will only be able to charge at 7 kW."
20kW DC charging...
 
#9 ·
Charging rate can be any rate required... currently it is targeted at 50kW as a minimum, but only because the locations they are placed requires faster charging, service station, etc.

However, in a Toby Carvery... you don't need 50, 100, 150kW charging because you're there eating lunch... you just need something better than AC charging which sometimes doesn't charge you the same amount you loose to get to the location i the first place.

People will disagree with me, but I think pretty soon this will be the way forward... DC charging at rates that make it worth going to these locations, shopping centres, food locations, cinemas and that encourage stays of 1.5-2 hours so that you spend some money on the service but that you then move on and another person comes by and does the same.
 
#10 ·
fa147 said:
People will disagree with me, but I think pretty soon this will be the way forward... DC charging at rates that make it worth going to these locations, shopping centres, food locations, cinemas and that encourage stays of 1.5-2 hours so that you spend some money on the service but that you then move on and another person comes by and does the same.
Sorry, I don't disagree with you.

However, when there are 30,000,000 cars on UK roads (10,000,000 with only street parking), and they are all EVs, it's going to need a lot of chargers :)
 
#11 ·
More chargers are better than none, but mixing single charging bays with alcohol vendors is a recipe for trouble. Imagine going into a Toby carvery to ask the family who have ICEd the charging bay to leave their Sunday roast and move their car, especially if the car park is otherwise full.
Disputes over a ICEing at a single charge point at my Mum's care home have led to two stand up arguments, leading to the charger being switched off by the management.
 
#12 ·
Captain.Plummet said:
More chargers are better than none, but mixing single charging bays with alcohol vendors is a recipe for trouble. Imagine going into a Toby carvery to ask the family who have ICEd the charging bay to leave their Sunday roast and move their car, especially if the car park is otherwise full.
Disputes over a ICEing at a single charge point at my Mum's care home have led to two stand up arguments, leading to the charger being switched off by the management.
And the way to resolve that.... which by the way you were against when I mentioned it previously... financial penalties. There is a set max time of 2 hours and then you have to pay over the odd for staying. This results in responsibilities being observed because no one wants to be (financially) penalised, so they abide by the rules set.

This is why every type of parking system in the world comes with a penalty if you over park, it forces the individual to take responsibility of their own actions.

So in summary & my view:
- DC charging (so that all cars can benefit) of rates up 20 kW
- Far more "bays" per location
This is due to lower max DC output. eg 5* 20kW rather than 1* 100kW or 15* 20kW rather than 2* 150kW
- Charging by time occupied
Almost every car can easily do DC charging at 20kW and if slower it is likely because EV is above 90%, then they should not be there as these are not for them.
- Max time of 2 hours before financial penalty.
This encourages movement of EV by its owner
- Enforcement using Alpha Power system.
Enforces the above and stops ICEing issues

This is not the case for service stations, at those places you need 150kW/350kW charging to get on your way quickly, but at shopping centres or Toby carveries you need the above situation. The time charging works because it encourage movement of the EV if you are not getting 20kW rate, which is the case for cars that are above 90-95%. Also, most car manufacturer recommend against continuous rapid/fast charging of high kW rates due to the affect it has on the chemistry of the batteries. So at 20kW the affect is almost the same as AC charging but it cuts out the conversion at the car unit and allows far more efficient converters at the charging station, i.e. 1 at the 15* 20kW charging bays.
 
#13 ·
fa147 said:
Captain.Plummet said:
More chargers are better than none, but mixing single charging bays with alcohol vendors is a recipe for trouble. Imagine going into a Toby carvery to ask the family who have ICEd the charging bay to leave their Sunday roast and move their car, especially if the car park is otherwise full.
Disputes over a ICEing at a single charge point at my Mum's care home have led to two stand up arguments, leading to the charger being switched off by the management.
And the way to resolve that.... which by the way you were against when I mentioned it previously... financial penalties. There is a set max time of 2 hours and then you have to pay over the odd for staying. This results in responsibilities being observed because no one wants to be (financially) penalised, so they abide by the rules set.

This is why every type of parking system in the world comes with a penalty if you over park, it forces the individual to take responsibility of their own actions.

So in summary & my view:
- DC charging (so that all cars can benefit) of rates up 20 kW
- Far more "bays" per location
This is due to lower max DC output. eg 5* 20kW rather than 1* 100kW or 15* 20kW rather than 2* 150kW
- Charging by time occupied
Almost every car can easily do DC charging at 20kW and if slower it is likely because EV is above 90%, then they should not be there as these are not for them.
- Max time of 2 hours before financial penalty.
This encourages movement of EV by its owner
- Enforcement using Alpha Power system.
Enforces the above and stops ICEing issues
Charging bays are not parking systems, which is the gaping flaw in your argument. Parking bays might however have charging points, which is a very different thing. It makes no sense to put a rapid charger in a Toby car park. The only reason it is there is because there is power available, the stakeholders think they are projecting an environmental image and BP are trying to extend their EV coverage as fast as possible with minimum costs. The Toby charger might charge one car over a lunch service, but what happens when there are to or three, or passing EV drivers wishing to use it. Next it will be limited access or customers only, with a combination of overstay charges, fines and enforcement officers.
You are fixated on your idea for 20kW DC charging, but that isn't ever going to happen. It is as expensive to install a 20kW DC charger as it is to install a 50kW unit, but it's way cheaper to install eight 7kW outlets, which is what you want in a long stay car park.
50/100kW charging for drive-through forecourts and lots of 7kW chargers in car parks would solve most of the problems and suit the vast majority of EV drivers.
 
#14 ·
One has just been installed at a pub in the north Preston suburb of Fulwood (well, sherwood is a bit of a subset of fulwood) - within days of the instavolt chargers at Booths being commissioned about half a mile away.

I cannot imagine using any of them - I live too close to pay anything more than 15p per kWh - but on a day trip to Keswick (90 miles away) I will use the instavolt at booths Keswick to give me 10 kWh or so to give a safety margin to get home on a cold day

They are going in at supermarkets and pubs because those locations have public parking, and a public parking space is a must to be able to charge a car. So the chargers go where there is space - in fulwood booths and the pub are in residential areas so they can be used by residents (though they pretty much all have off-road parking there) or visitors to the hospital or people shopping / having lunch / dinner

If a care home has turned off the chargers it's because they cannot be bothered to find a solution to a problem - it's no good saying you cannot put chargers in places like that, you have to find a solution to the problems
 
#15 ·
Yep, sounds like you are agreeing and what fa147 is suggesting, more chargers at an appropriate rate rather than less Rapid chargers. Maybe a good compromise is the new rapid chargers that allow multiple connections to share the one device.
 
#16 ·
oop north said:
One has just been installed at a pub in the north Preston suburb of Fulwood (well, sherwood is a bit of a subset of fulwood) - within days of the instavolt chargers at Booths being commissioned about half a mile away.

I cannot imagine using any of them - I live too close to pay anything more than 15p per kWh - but on a day trip to Keswick (90 miles away) I will use the instavolt at booths Keswick to give me 10 kWh or so to give a safety margin to get home on a cold day

They are going in at supermarkets and pubs because those locations have public parking, and a public parking space is a must to be able to charge a car. So the chargers go where there is space - in fulwood booths and the pub are in residential areas so they can be used by residents (though they pretty much all have off-road parking there) or visitors to the hospital or people shopping / having lunch / dinner

If a care home has turned off the chargers it's because they cannot be bothered to find a solution to a problem - it's no good saying you cannot put chargers in places like that, you have to find a solution to the problems
The OAP care home turned off the charger because they did not want to deal with the arguments that were happening between fossil drivers (no pun intended) parking in the charging bay and visitors wanting to charge their car.

I reiterate, car parks are places where EV charging should be available, but should not be exclusive. If we start with the premise that fossil cars are excluded from parking spaces where there is a charging point there will always be conflict. If that problem is addressed using penalties and enforcement the situation will just get worse, more so as the number of charging bays increases.

Ultimately it would be better if every parking bay had a charging point and any type of car could park in it. That might sound ridiculous, but for 7kW points the amount of power required would not be great at the moment as there are not so many EV's on the road. If the outlet infrastructure was there the external power supply could be upgraded as the market grew. There may be other ways of managing the charge to each outlet based upon time parked in the bay, state of charge etc.

It's going to need lateral thinking to solve this problem and I do not see single chargers in pub car parks being a milestone solution.
 
#18 ·
oop north said:
But if you start with the premise that parking takes precedence then there will be just the same conflict that EVs will be ice'd
That is the only way forward, because parking has to take precedence. How on earth are car parks going to gradually move from predominantly ICE vehicles to predominantly EVs in the next ten years or so? Are they going to transfer ICE bays to charging bays based on some national ownership statistic? How will that work in localities where the mix is different?

It's understandable that EV owners think in terms of EV priority, but that is completely unrealistic.
 
#20 ·
Captain.Plummet said:
Disputes over a ICEing at a single charge point at my Mum's care home have led to two stand up arguments, leading to the charger being switched off by the management.
Obviously I don't know any background (how much power they have available, how convenient to get it to the parking bays etc.) but if they have only put in one charging socket I think the fault lies with the management and feels to me like all they are doing is "paying lip service" to EVs.

Cost of putting in one charging bay (unless mitigating circumstances) compared to a dozen is just plain stupid, better to do nothing and sit and wait until more sure.

We have done something like 50% of the car park at work (mine is the only EV so far, but people are talking about it ...). Whilst we were at it we did as much as we expect to need for a good many years. And government footed 50% of the bill, and I expect if we had installed only one it probably would have cost us close to 50% of what we actually paid - by the time contractor had got people on site and "run a cable".
 
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