MY21 charging speed

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kermit68
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

MY21 charging speed

Post by kermit68 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:06 pm

Yesterday I had the opportunity to test a brand new HPC charging station Enel X has installed in Rome some 5 km from my home. It's made of 4 Tritium 350kw charger so it's very like a Ionity station. I arrived with 20% Soc (I know, I should got there with a lower SOC for a more extended test) and charged up to 91% with a MY21. Ambient temperature 20°C, initial battery temperature around 31°C. Following are the data coming from charger display and from OBD2 (l started logging not from the beginning of the charge so a little part of the initial chargin session is missing from OBD2 data).

OBD2 data

OBD charge vs time.jpg

OBD charge vs soc.jpg

Charger data

charger vs time.jpg

charger vs soc.jpg

In this last graph I also added manually the most common chargin curve for MY19/20. I know that sometime it could better than that but at least in my experience that is the most common curving charge I experienced at Ionity stations.

As Tesla Bjorn reported already in a video, the MY21 initial charging curve is faster (his was a little bit worse I guess due much lower temprature in Norway :D ) up to 40%. Thne 40 - 45% the curves are the same but from there onwards the MY19/20 is alwyaws faster. Not a lot faster but it is noticeably faster. As you can see the MY21 has fixed current steps that are limiting the charging speed while MY19/20 are more gradual in the max power shaping.
That being said, it's very nice to see a peak of 110kw, finally :mrgreen:
Total charging time I guess it's not going to be much different at least if pushing the MY21 above 80% SoC. I also guess that when using 50kw chargers MY19/20 will be faster as MY21 drops below "full 50kw speed" earlier and consistently.
MY21 Yulong White SE, 20", head-up display, air susp, matrix lights, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs
MY20 SE - gone

GSIpace
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:27 pm
Location: London

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by GSIpace » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:01 pm

MY21charging in real world terms is not much of an upgrade then, I guess! Ease of charging at superchargers and speed of charging is where Tesla trumps other manufacturers!
Do you have data comparing AC charging. ie. 11KW on MY21 vs 7KW on older models?
Btw, what OBD adapter and what software do you use?

kermit68
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by kermit68 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:13 pm

GSIpace wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:01 pm
MY21charging in real world terms is not much of an upgrade then, I guess! Ease of charging at superchargers and speed of charging is where Tesla trumps other manufacturers!
Do you have data comparing AC charging. ie. 11KW on MY21 vs 7KW on older models?
Btw, what OBD adapter and what software do you use?
I had the new car since 3 weeks now but most of the time it has been impossible to drive due to Covid restrictions in Italy. I only charged once at a 11kw AC charger and the difference was evident compared to my previous MY20. But I have to say that this is due mainly to the fact that 3 phase charger in Italy do deliver 11kw while when used in a monophase manner they do not always deliver 32A but rather 20A. So basically the big difference I saw is partially due to the AC charger rather than to the car itself.

I'm using Oblink LX OBD adapter, but cheaper ones are fine as well. Torque Pro on Android is your best friend as soft. But you have to read the threads on PID and Canbus to understand what and how to look for. Dernotte and Maxwell have done most of the job in discovering and understanding the different Pids behavior and we all need to thank them.
MY21 Yulong White SE, 20", head-up display, air susp, matrix lights, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs
MY20 SE - gone

Maettu
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:54 am
Location: CH

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by Maettu » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:28 am

Thanks a lot for the charging diagrams. I think the max charging number is rather irrelevant, as long as it only applies for very specific circumstances AND a very short amount of time. In combination with the high consumption we have a low "km/mi per hour" charging speed when traveling long distances. I have a (rare) use case where my travel time will increase by 4 hours or 50% due to charging stops. Rather disappointing, but I knew what I would get into.

As to AC charging, what I regularly saw was 10.5 kW (in sub-zero °C ) at the charger, WattCat reported 8.5 to 9.5 kW (due to battery heating, I would think) - but I do not know whether WattCat reports the correct numbers ( as we all know the JLR API is fickle).

If the I-Pace stays with the upcoming JLR model lineup, it will need to get a major upgrade battery-wise to stay competitive.
ElectroCat MY21
Software bugs @ 2.0.8 blabla

kermit68
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by kermit68 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 am

I will try another charge from close to zero SoC. As I said those chargers are close to my home so it should not too difficult to get there well below 10% with a minimum of planning. I'm really curious to see the overall picture in order to understand if there is some gain in charging from nearly zero to 80%.
We'll be very far from e-Trons in any case.
MY21 Yulong White SE, 20", head-up display, air susp, matrix lights, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs
MY20 SE - gone

CaptainJAG
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:55 pm
Location: Germany

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by CaptainJAG » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:50 am

Great Job ... thanks for sharing 👍

The MY19 and MY20 are charging at 100kw using the hazard light trick... works fine for me and other guys here in Germany.
If you compare the charging curves including the 100kw at the beginning, the older MY appear to be noticeable faster in charging 🤔

Jaguar will not give a charging speed improvement then as mentioned last year by some insiders ....

In my case, it is the only issue of the i-Pace... Charging extremely slow ... the car itself is extremely good and can stand a comparison to Porsche Taycan... but when it comes to charging, it sucks ....

EEV320
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:24 am
Location: Germany

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by EEV320 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:55 pm

kermit68 wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:13 pm
GSIpace wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:01 pm
MY21charging in real world terms is not much of an upgrade then, I guess! Ease of charging at superchargers and speed of charging is where Tesla trumps other manufacturers!
Do you have data comparing AC charging. ie. 11KW on MY21 vs 7KW on older models?
Btw, what OBD adapter and what software do you use?
I had the new car since 3 weeks now but most of the time it has been impossible to drive due to Covid restrictions in Italy. I only charged once at a 11kw AC charger and the difference was evident compared to my previous MY20. But I have to say that this is due mainly to the fact that 3 phase charger in Italy do deliver 11kw while when used in a monophase manner they do not always deliver 32A but rather 20A. So basically the big difference I saw is partially due to the AC charger rather than to the car itself.

I'm using Oblink LX OBD adapter, but cheaper ones are fine as well. Torque Pro on Android is your best friend as soft. But you have to read the threads on PID and Canbus to understand what and how to look for. Dernotte and Maxwell have done most of the job in discovering and understanding the different Pids behavior and we all need to thank them.
Any chance you could give a tutorial how to set up the pids in that app?
I would like to see battery temp but I have no clue about the pid and coding things.
EV320SE MY2021
German spec.
Eiger grey, black pack, drivers assistance pack, WiFi hotspot
Software 2.0.8a P3AX

kermit68
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by kermit68 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:11 pm

EEV320 wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:55 pm
Any chance you could give a tutorial how to set up the pids in that app?
I would like to see battery temp but I have no clue about the pid and coding things.
No problem, we're stuck at home for Ester vacation due to Covid so time is not an issue. Let me setup a starter kit and by tonight I'll post it ;)
MY21 Yulong White SE, 20", head-up display, air susp, matrix lights, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs
MY20 SE - gone

EEV320
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:24 am
Location: Germany

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by EEV320 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:03 pm

That’d be awesome. Maybe we can gather more Info from different Cars with that.
I appreciate your effort very much. Thank you!
EV320SE MY2021
German spec.
Eiger grey, black pack, drivers assistance pack, WiFi hotspot
Software 2.0.8a P3AX

kermit68
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: MY21 charging speed

Post by kermit68 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:06 pm

Short tutorial on how to read, display and log data from the OBD2 port using Torque Pro.
What you need:
- Torque Pro (Android). You need the paid version but the current price should be €5 or something like that
- an OBD2 buletooth adapter. They are all very similar, don't bother too much about negative reviews as most people buy the adapters not knowing how to use them and get frustrated. Just get an adapter that is not too long as you may accidentaly hit with your legs while driving. Personally I'm using "OBDLink LX" but it's not cheap right now. When I purchased it the price was around €50
- an android phone with bluetooth. You can use an Apple device but I'm not familiar with iOs so you may need somebody else for a dedicated tutorial.

Step 1: plug the the adapter to the car (the port is located below the steering wheel, just search it with your hands it's quite easy to locate. You can plug even if the car is on/moving. Just remember to remove it when you leave the car for 2 reasons: (1) it can drain the 12V battery if left plugged for a long period of time (let's say days ..) and (2) [paranoid mode on] in theory it can be used to hack the car and steal it [paranoid mode off]

Step 2: pair the adapter with your phone. Just follow the normal procedure for pairing any bluetooh device

Step 3: launch Torque Pro, tap on the dented wheel on bottom left and tap "Vehicle Profile". Create a profile, name it as you like, don't bother to config it as it has designed for ICE cars only but you need one in any case to store your settings

Step 4: now from the dented wheel menu select "Setting". The enviroment is pretty much self explanatory, just play a littl enit with "General preferences", "Units", "OBD2 Adapter settings"

Step 5: download and unzip the file Torque_Pro_files.zip in your computer
Torque_Pro_files.zip
(3.35 KiB) Downloaded 20 times

Step 6: copy the .csv file in the main memory/.torque/extendedpids directory of your phone. Never opend the csv file with excel as suggested by windows as it will mess up the file. If needed use a program like "Notepad++"

Step 7: from settings, select "Manage extra PID/Sensors". tap on the dots on top right and select "add predefined list" and select the .csv file you copied from the list

Step 8: copy the .dash file in the main memory/.torque/dashboards directory of your phone.

Step 9: from Torque Pro inital page select "Realtime information", long press one by one all the proposed displays and delete them (boring I know). Then whithout leaving the display page tap the dented wheel on bottom left, tap on "Layout settings" and then "import layout" and select the .dash file you copaied before.

You are now ready to use Torque Pro using my list of PIDs and my display setup. You can of course play with display (your taste maybe different from mine :D ) and you can read from the different threads on other PIDs and add them to you personal list. My advise is to do it with a csv editor (like Notepad++) and reimport the new list as is way quicker than doing directly on the phone.

Data logging is a 2 step procedure. First you need to tell Torque Pro want you wanto to log: from the main page tap on the dented wheel, then "settings", then "Data logging and upload" and then "select what to log". You can select what to log from the presented list which will be a mix of our user defined PID and a bunch of useless ICE predefined PIDs. Once you'll have defined what to log (you have to do it only one time unless you want to add/remove PIDs), from the "Realtime information" page, tap on the dented wheel and select "start logging". Select "Stop logging" once you'll be done. The resulting csv file will be in the main memory/torqueLogs directory.
Remarks: all PIDs will work on MY19/20 too with the exception of max regen (Pid is the same but the formula need to be changed). Also, the estimation of the available energy in the battery is reasonable but it's not a proven science: it may be corrected in the future and/or adapted for MY21 as I'll get more data from the new car.

Questions are welcomed. Have fun :mrgreen:
Last edited by kermit68 on Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MY21 Yulong White SE, 20", head-up display, air susp, matrix lights, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs
MY20 SE - gone

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