CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

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Maxwell_400
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by Maxwell_400 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:14 pm

dernotte wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:14 pm
Maxwell_400 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:24 am

Yes, I too looked at 9854, 9855, 9856, 9857 and can confirm your findings. I do not think we will find a current for the heater, my guess is it is controlled by a pwm and power is (HV battery) squared times pwm divided on Rptc.
from Jaguar doc :
The speed of the blower is controlled by a Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) signal from the HVAC Control Module to the blower control module. The HVAC blower speed requests depend on inputs from the Integrated Control Panel (ICP) and the Rear Integrated Control Panel (RICP) (if equipped).

The blower has a 3 pin connector for the climate control assembly wiring harness. The 3 pin connector has the following electrical connections:
- A power supply from a relay in the left Front Junction Box (FJB).
- A PWM signal from the HVAC.
- A ground connection.
Modern cars are way to complicated for their own good, if Jaguar has not been super clever PWM for the heater should be a number between 0 and 100. For the blower RPM can be A*10. (0-1600)
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, 20C, TCU 19.2, BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

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ANBO
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by ANBO » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:10 pm

Looking for some pointers on the seat heating.

Looking through a part directory, the parts are shared with many other Jags
https://www.suburbanautoparts.com/v-201 ... ated-seats

This is a reference to the XF heated seats with at the bottom of the page several pictures from a scanner.
https://www.jaginfo.org/threads/heated- ... 187/page-2

According to the images we should expect to find:
- Right Seat Cushion Temperature
- Right Seat Back Temperature
- Left Seat Cushion Temperature
- Left Seat Back Temperature
- Right Climate Seat System State (Fault, Standby,...)
- Left Climate Seat System State (Fault, Standby,...)
- Right Climate Seat Mode (Open Loop/ Soft Start - Cold, Full Seat/Seat Backrest - Cool Mode/Heat Mode - High, No Request since ignition on, ...)
- Left Climate Seat Mode (Open Loop/ Soft Start - Cold, Full Seat/Seat Backrest - Cool Mode/Heat Mode - High, No Request since ignition on, ...)
- Control Module Supply Voltage (14.7 V)

I also expect to find
- Rear Right Seat Cushion Temperature
- Rear Right Climate Seat System State (Fault, Standby,...)
- Rear Right Climate Seat Mode (Open Loop/ Soft Start - Cold, Full Seat/Seat Backrest - Cool Mode/Heat Mode - High, No Request since ignition on, ...)
- Rear Left Seat Cushion Temperature
- Rear Left Climate Seat System State (Fault, Standby,...)
- Rear Left Climate Seat Mode (Open Loop/ Soft Start - Cold, Full Seat/Seat Backrest - Cool Mode/Heat Mode - High, No Request since ignition on, ...)
Last edited by ANBO on Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
🇨🇭 EV400 HSE (MY2020; MAR 2020); 18" ❄
⚙️ H264 ⚙️ ICM: S20C ⚙️ VCS: 19.2
⚙️ BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE ⚙️ Maps: 06.2020

dernotte
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by dernotte » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:48 pm

I ran more test today . The context is:

21:10 car on, no heat.
21:15 car on, heat on , smart off, 20c-20c,
21:30 auto on, smart off, 25c-16c.
21:35 auto off, smart off, 25c-16c
21:40 auto off, smart off, head, 25c-16c
21:45 auto off, smart off, head, 16c-25c
21:50 auto off, smart off, 16c-25c, leg
21:55 auto off, smart off, 25c-16c, leg
22:00 auto off, smart off, 25c-16c, head
22:05 auto on, 20c, smart on

With this we can say that

PID 9854: Duct air on driver-head
PID 9855: Duct air on passenger-head
PID 9856: Duct air on driver-leg
PID 9857: Duct air on passenger-leg

all with formula (A/2)-40

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 17.39.39.png


dernotte
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by dernotte » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:20 pm

I have identify some PID that move between 0 and 255. They could be motors that open and close duct. It seems like when the duct is closed, the value is 255, and when the duct is fully opened, the value is 0.

PID 9902 seems to open only when MAX A/C is on.
PID 98F6 and PID 9906 moves side by side, regardless of the driver/passenger difference, and are the only one which completely open (value =0) when I select air on head.
PID 990A and PID 990B are connected. Both open the same way when I hit 'air on windshield', 990A open when I raise the temp on driver's side, and 990B opens when I raise temp on passenger side. Could be the motor for windshield duct , left and right.

990C, 990D, 98Fa, 98Fb seems to be related to the A/C air. They only open when we need cold air.

Context is:

14:26 car on, heat off
14:30 car on, heat on, smart off, auto, 17c-17c
14:55 car on, heat on, smart off, windshield, 17c-17c
15:00 car on, heat on, smart off, head, 17c-17c
15:05 car on, heat on, smart off, leg, 17c-17c
15:10 car on, heat on, smart off, auto, 23c-17c
15:15 car on, heat on, smart off, auto, 17c-23c
15:20 car on, heat on, smart off, auto off, a/c off, 17c-23c
15:25 car on, heat on, smart off, auto off, MAX A/C, 17c-23c (head, no leg)
15:30 car on, heat on, smart off, auto, 20c-20c
15:35 car on, heat on, smart off, vent=1, 20c-20c (windshield)
15:37 car on, heat on, smart off, vent=2, 20c-20c
15:39 car on, heat on, smart off, vent=3, 20c-20c
15:41 car on, heat on, smart off, vent=4, 20c-20c
15:43 car on, heat on, smart off, vent=5, 20c-20c
15:45 car on, heat on, smart off, vent=6, 20c-20c
15:47 car on, heat on, smart off, vent=7, 20c-20c
15:49, car on, heat on, smart off, auto, 16c-16c
16:00, car on, heat on, smart off, auto, 20c-20c
16:05, car on, heat off

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 17.56.41.png

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 18.00.29.png

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 18.05.02.png

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 18.14.34.png

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 18.18.59.png


dernotte
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by dernotte » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:40 pm

On this test we can see 2 PID (98A7 and 98A8) that are close to the cabin temperature from the BECM module. Those PID does not change with the left/right temperature, or head/leg setting. They steadily ramp up to the 20c, but without reaching that 20c. They stopped at 16/17c.

No idea what 98A4 and 98A5 are. They ramp up very slowly, maybe the seat temp sensor ? they ramp up because my body heat ? I need to do more test with the heater on the seat.

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 18.35.21.png

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 18.35.31.png


dernotte
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by dernotte » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:53 am

PID 98A4 is related to the driver seat heater, back section, PID 98A7 for bottom section.
Have not figure out the formula, but can't be temperature, it moves too fast.

Capture d’écran, le 2021-02-20 à 19.51.33.png


kermit68
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by kermit68 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:14 am

I was thinking that by comparing data from HVAC and BECM module we could finally understand if in winter AC on means heat pump on or the opposite (AC = cold air and hot air from electrical heater). I remember I asked this question more than a year ago to JLR on this forum and the answer was clear as fog mentioning some technical know how they did not want to disclosure.
I mentioned BECM as I wonder when the car is using the heater to warm the car if it's possible to warm the battery with the heat pump assuming of course the external temperature is not too low for the heat pump to work properly.
MY20 Yulong White SE, 20", air suspension, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs

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ANBO
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by ANBO » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:06 pm

Some (lengthy) thoughts on the Seat Heating. Any of your insights on the measures, and calculations are welcome.

Seat FAN Power Rear Left 229848_A
Seat FAN Power Rear Right 229849_A
Seat FAN power Backrest Front Right 2298bb_A
Seat FAN power Backrest Front Left 2298bd_A
Seat FAN power Cushion Front Right 2298bf_A
Seat FAN power Cushion Front Right also? 2298c0_A

I suspect these to be the FANs as they respond to the off, 1, 2 and 3 settings. UoM I am not sure about.
The rear seats are very clean with 1 (36), 2 (44) and 3 (52) on either side.
The front seats seem more intelligent. A) you see the audible Rev peaks on when turning on, even when just selecting 1 B) passenger seat does not increase when heating, I guess because I was not sitting there, but C) when cooling the passenger seat sis show a clean 3 (79), 2 (64) and 1 (49).
2298c0 and 2298bf for some reason both recorded in parallel, aligned with adjustments to the Front Right Cushion. Guess a glitch on the logging and should have shown Front Left Cushion.

Based on this Peltier Element Design guide (not Jaguar's) and the readings on the PIDs, I am thinking Heat Sink Temperature, Voltage and Current:
https://www.meerstetter.ch/customer-cen ... sign-guide

Heat Sink is always returning a value, which with A-40 it responds almost instantly from cold to hot (90C with start-up peaks up to 100C when turning on the heating) and hot to cold (7C when turning on the cooling), but half way it also has very gradual profiles e.g. when just turning on the backrest or just turning the heating off (i.e. not cooling). Also the Voltage and Current profiles are in sync with the temperature profiles for heating.
Seat Backrest Heat Sink Temperature Front Left 2298a4_A-40
Seat Backrest Heat Sink Temperature Front Right 2298a5_A-40
Seat Cushion Heat Sink Temperature Front Left 2298a7_A-40
Seat Cushion Heat Sink Temperature Front Right 2298a8_A-40

Slightly different than the FAN, the supposed Voltage and Current profiles between the Left and Right seat are as good as aligned and seem to respond in sync with the settings 1 ( 28V/14A), 2 ( 38V/21A) and 3 ( 52V/ 26A). Quite sure there must be a divisor on one or both of these values
Seat Backrest Voltage? Front Left 2298ab_A
Seat Backrest Voltage? Front Right 2298ac_A
Seat Cushion Voltage? Front Left 2298af_A
Seat Cushion Voltage? Front Right 2298b0_A
Seat Backrest Ampere? Front Left 2298b3_A
Seat Backrest Ampere? Front Right 2298b4_A
Seat Cushion Ampere? Front Left 2298b7_A
Seat Cushion Ampere? Front Right 2298ba_A

Think these 2 are linked to the mode selected, although it is not always clean. Either I am wrong or with some automation, the values do not always align exact with the user selection.
Seat Mode Front Left 2298c3
Seat Mode Front Right 2298c4

Did not have a PID logging during this testing that showed the actual temperature of the seat, i.e. with a very gradual profile going up or down,
Seat Heating trackLog-2021-Feb-20_23-37-32.xlsx
(984.4 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
🇨🇭 EV400 HSE (MY2020; MAR 2020); 18" ❄
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ANBO
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by ANBO » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:12 pm

Anybody any thoughts what these could be?
- I am confident these are linked to the Front Left, Front Right and Rear passenger compartments
- It turns on only when the (Smart) Climate Control is turned on
- Front Right dropped to 0 when a passenger left the car (left hand drive)
- All zones turned on when 2 passengers entered the rear of the car
- They cycle gradually up and down in contra-pairs
- The 2 Front Compartments have each 2 contra-pairs. The Rear compartment have also 2 contra-pairs, but one of the 2 lower cycles seems shared between left and right compartment
- the PID series 9854-9857 dip a little when the cycle switches
- there is a slow cycle (seems associated with increasing temperature) and a fast 'reset'
- there is also a more stable cycle, still with a periodic fast 'reset'

Was thinking this could be temperature sensors on the 2 sides of the HVAC inverters (one cooling down and one warming up). The resets being a switch to prevent icing up?

2021-02-21_22-44-13.jpg

🇨🇭 EV400 HSE (MY2020; MAR 2020); 18" ❄
⚙️ H264 ⚙️ ICM: S20C ⚙️ VCS: 19.2
⚙️ BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE ⚙️ Maps: 06.2020

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ANBO
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Re: CANBus : HVAC Module (733)

Post by ANBO » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:25 am

ANBO wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:12 pm

Was thinking this could be temperature sensors on the 2 sides of the HVAC inverters (one cooling down and one warming up). The resets being a switch to prevent icing up?
Was wondering if such a steep temperature curve is possible, and it might very well be if we assume these are 2 small elements per compartment.

See also an article in Flash defrost:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Com ... _261712674

Comparison-of-the-aircoil-temperatures-during-an-electric-defrost-and-a-flash-defrost.png

🇨🇭 EV400 HSE (MY2020; MAR 2020); 18" ❄
⚙️ H264 ⚙️ ICM: S20C ⚙️ VCS: 19.2
⚙️ BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE ⚙️ Maps: 06.2020

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