Canbus and PID for the IPace

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Maxwell_400
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:09 am
Location: Norway

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by Maxwell_400 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:10 pm

iomagico wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:13 pm
Maxwell_400 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:51 am
You should update the TCU and BECM, mine is on BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE, they have supposedly improved the self balancing of the battery.
We have got cell min, cell max and cell avg (490f/108). I will top up the car and check the voltages, last time I was at 100% was in November,
then I had 4.1, 4.123,4.144.
My BECM software is BP-AAG-BD-AD-BE, updated on 26.01.2021, so I think it’s the last one.
On top charging the most important voltage is the higher, so in my case it was 4,14V
Delta was 11 mV.

Having all voltages (as in other EV) can show us erratic cells (or module).
If cells voltage is ok and bms calculations are ok, there is something degrading my cells very fast... (8200 km on the clock, less than one year production date).
Spaghetti in the carburetor ? :o

I like your dashboard, nice :D

I ran a charge test now, charged at 230volts and 6A,10A,13A,16A,20A,25A and 32A.
If I use 40 as divisor for the current I get charge loss of 250W and 15%.
If I use 36 as divisor I get charge loss of 250W and 3.5% .
If I use 35 as divisor I get charge loss of 250W.
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, 20C, TCU 19.2, BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

iomagico
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:36 am
Location: Catania/Italia

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by iomagico » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:58 pm

Maxwell_400 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:10 pm
iomagico wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:13 pm
Maxwell_400 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:51 am
You should update the TCU and BECM, mine is on BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE, they have supposedly improved the self balancing of the battery.
We have got cell min, cell max and cell avg (490f/108). I will top up the car and check the voltages, last time I was at 100% was in November,
then I had 4.1, 4.123,4.144.
My BECM software is BP-AAG-BD-AD-BE, updated on 26.01.2021, so I think it’s the last one.
On top charging the most important voltage is the higher, so in my case it was 4,14V
Delta was 11 mV.

Having all voltages (as in other EV) can show us erratic cells (or module).
If cells voltage is ok and bms calculations are ok, there is something degrading my cells very fast... (8200 km on the clock, less than one year production date).
Spaghetti in the carburetor ? :o

I like your dashboard, nice :D

I ran a charge test now, charged at 230volts and 6A,10A,13A,16A,20A,25A and 32A.
If I use 40 as divisor for the current I get charge loss of 250W and 15%.
If I use 36 as divisor I get charge loss of 250W and 3.5% .
If I use 35 as divisor I get charge loss of 250W.
From an old charging graph with granny charger (10A), I had 13.52 kWh from AC socket (steady voltage) versus 10.60 kWh into the car, after 6 hours.
Doing some math, it was a charge loss of 2.92 kWh - (250W * 6h) = 1.42 kWh (10.5 % of 13.52)
So loss was 250W + 10.5%.
If numbers were correct, the divisor should be 38.
🇮🇹 Italy
I-Pace SE Black Santorini - Grace, 2020MY - Air Suspensions - Panoramic Roof - Parking assist - delivered sept 2020 - IMC: S20B | TCU: 16.2 |
BMW i3S Black

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Lobster
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 2:10 pm
Location: South Australia

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by Lobster » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:36 am

Hi dernotte, on your google sheets on your 1st post you have ECU 716 SDLC Description ???

DLC is an abbreviation for Data Link Connector The actual OBD2 port. Maybe this is an interface module.

SDLC - Google search finds this OBD2 Bus breakout device. http://innomatix.biz/project/sdlc-breakout/


Do you have a public link to an updated version of the Google spreadsheet document?

The https://www.openvehicles.com/node/2423 thread has not updated for a while.

I have the Torque Pro (OBD 2 Car) App and BT dongle that I have used on several other cars.

Is there a beta Torque App formatted PID file with formulas available for testing?

I would be able to provide some interesting temperature data as it will be a hot +38 degrees Celsius today

Cheers, Steve
MY19 FE | Photon Red | 20" 5070s |H264 | H280 | SOTA | S20C1_20.48.3-635557 |
TCU : J8A2-70712-AY = (19.2) | BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE |Oz Map:8.30.117.153 - 28/2/21|
Mods: 55Ah 12V AGM Battery | 2 x "Matson" 12V Battery Monitors |

Maxwell_400
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:09 am
Location: Norway

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by Maxwell_400 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:43 am

iomagico wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:58 pm
Maxwell_400 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:10 pm

I ran a charge test now, charged at 230volts and 6A,10A,13A,16A,20A,25A and 32A.
If I use 40 as divisor for the current I get charge loss of 250W and 15%.
If I use 36 as divisor I get charge loss of 250W and 3.5% .
If I use 35 as divisor I get charge loss of 250W.
From an old charging graph with granny charger (10A), I had 13.52 kWh from AC socket (steady voltage) versus 10.60 kWh into the car, after 6 hours.
Doing some math, it was a charge loss of 2.92 kWh - (250W * 6h) = 1.42 kWh (10.5 % of 13.52)
So loss was 250W + 10.5%.
If numbers were correct, the divisor should be 38.
We are getting closer, I was happy with 36 as charge efficiency should be in the range 95%-98% and 1/36 = 1s/1hr x 100.

But 36 to 38 then and 38 is closer to 40 as I have used as a good value from energy loss measurements.
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, 20C, TCU 19.2, BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

kermit68
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by kermit68 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:11 pm

Maxwell_400 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:43 am

We are getting closer, I was happy with 36 as charge efficiency should be in the range 95%-98% and 1/36 = 1s/1hr x 100.

But 36 to 38 then and 38 is closer to 40 as I have used as a good value from energy loss measurements.
Just to add some noise .... Using 40 and calculating istant power as current times voltage I got a peak power of 300kw (during an overtake) which is in excess of the declared 295kw. Using 36 or 38 as divisor to calculate current would lead to even higher power values so I'm almost conviced we can't go lower than 40.
MY20 Yulong White SE, 20", air suspension, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs

dernotte
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:34 pm
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by dernotte » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:35 pm

Lobster wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:36 am
Hi dernotte, on your google sheets on your 1st post you have ECU 716 SDLC Description ???

DLC is an abbreviation for Data Link Connector The actual OBD2 port. Maybe this is an interface module.

SDLC - Google search finds this OBD2 Bus breakout device. http://innomatix.biz/project/sdlc-breakout/


Do you have a public link to an updated version of the Google spreadsheet document?

The https://www.openvehicles.com/node/2423 thread has not updated for a while.

I have the Torque Pro (OBD 2 Car) App and BT dongle that I have used on several other cars.

Is there a beta Torque App formatted PID file with formulas available for testing?

I would be able to provide some interesting temperature data as it will be a hot +38 degrees Celsius today

Cheers, Steve
I have no idea what's this SDLC is in this context. That name has been giving by one guy on another Jaguar Forum.
When I look at the available PID on that module, there is only 3 : 202, 304, 536, and they don't change a lot. That will be hard to figure out what it is.

For the document, it is live and reflect all the changes I made. Are you talking about another document ?

Rbrandwijk
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:30 pm
Location: NETHERLANDS

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by Rbrandwijk » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:29 pm

Great work guys! Perhaps this document can help you too.

https://autotechreview.com/technology/p ... wUkHCZJyfI

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ANBO
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:50 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by ANBO » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:54 am

Maxwell_400 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:11 am
PID4912 —-> (256A+B)/100
Estimated energy from bms ——> ([224912]x3.6x108)/1600expressed in kWh
Question or consideration: With the Battery Voltages PIDs the divisor changed from an earlier assumption of 100 to the current assumption of 108. I suppose because it is not measured as a percentage (100) but as a factor of the number of cells (108)?

Would this not apply for PID4912 as well? first you divide by 100, to then multiply by 108. Would it not 'simply' be [224912]: INT16(A:B)x3.6/1600?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
🇨🇭 EV400 HSE (MY2020; MAR 2020); 18" ❄
⚙️ H264 ⚙️ ICM: S20C ⚙️ VCS: 19.2
⚙️ BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE ⚙️ Maps: 06.2020

Maxwell_400
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:09 am
Location: Norway

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by Maxwell_400 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:00 pm

ANBO wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:54 am
Maxwell_400 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:11 am
PID4912 —-> (256A+B)/100
Estimated energy from bms ——> ([224912]x3.6x108)/1600expressed in kWh
Question or consideration: With the Battery Voltages PIDs the divisor changed from an earlier assumption of 100 to the current assumption of 108. I suppose because it is not measured as a percentage (100) but as a factor of the number of cells (108)?

Would this not apply for PID4912 as well? first you divide by 100, to then multiply by 108. Would it not 'simply' be [224912]: INT16(A:B)x3.6/1600?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
For me 4902 and 4912 is a bit of mystery. I was happy with kermit68s log as 4912 acted perfectly as a coulomb counter and had a ratio of 2706 compared with the integration of current (490c) over time. Then begged the question, why 2706? It must be multiplication of two numbers where one is between 36 and 40. I tried to set the unit of 4912 to As, Ws, Ah, Wh where watt was both real power and nominal power - no luck. To add to the insult my car and my logs do not have this ratio so I am utterly bewildered here. If there is a Jaguar engineer out there........Dernotte has found most of the PIDs, it would be nice if Jaguar could give us the proper interpretation.
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, 20C, TCU 19.2, BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

kermit68
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: Canbus and PID for the IPace

Post by kermit68 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:49 pm

ANBO wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:54 am
Question or consideration: With the Battery Voltages PIDs the divisor changed from an earlier assumption of 100 to the current assumption of 108. I suppose because it is not measured as a percentage (100) but as a factor of the number of cells (108)?
I may have missed some posts but I can't recall that we should use 108 as divisor to calculate the voltage .... To my memory the only 108 related voltage calculation is to get cell voltage average from battery pack voltage (0x490f).
Are you sure about that ?
MY20 Yulong White SE, 20", air suspension, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs

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