Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

All Jaguar I-Pace related discussions
electric beagle
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:23 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by electric beagle » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:31 am

Delta5 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:19 am
If I was a JLR lawyer or their insurance company that covers product liability I would be very worried about a $Billion dollar claim.
Lawyers are always worried that is their job.

Whenever you sell anything you will carry a degree of legal risk. A lawyer simply advises on potential liability (which can be fully mitigated I would suggest by a range of low cost options) however a good business owner or management leader balances the legal risks against other imperatives rather than seeks to eliminate all possible risk.

I would suspect the real risk of morons misusing a feature and then successfully suing JLR would be quite low.

In the US market (not globally renowned for its sophisticated consumer base) they have been selling non Adaptive cruise control for 40 years, if ever there was an accident and legal liability waiting to happen that was it but no-one stopped offering old fashioned cruise control (sometimes of fairly dubious reliability).
MY21HSE, Portofino Blue, Oyster interior, Wireless Charger, Cupholder Covers, Active Air Suspension, Adaptive Dynamics, Clear Sight rear view mirror, Panoramic Roof, Privacy Glass, Upgraded Cabin Lighting, Aluminium trim, Andersen EV Charger

electric beagle
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:23 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by electric beagle » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:34 am

tutis wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:28 am
Delta5 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:19 am
If I was a JLR lawyer or their insurance company that covers product liability I would be very worried about a $Billion dollar claim.
I am happy to sign a waver it that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. Also, for such systems provide by a third party, there is usually "reliance" on the third party; meaning that any litigation would be deflected to Bosch, and JLR would claim they were acting in good faith.

Finally, if this is such a safety priority for JLR, then why wouldn't they de-activate it for MY20 and before? Is it then that for MY20 and before money is the priority (i.e. not reimbursing clients who paid for this feature and therefore not removing this feature), but for MY21 and later security is the priority? Fine for JLR to have the high moral ground, but they need to be consistent.
I suspect the issue is more complex and may centre around a new design or component not quite meeting its performance spec. Especially given the number of other manufacturers following a similar path. It may well be that the old component performs adequately but the new one does not (currently).
MY21HSE, Portofino Blue, Oyster interior, Wireless Charger, Cupholder Covers, Active Air Suspension, Adaptive Dynamics, Clear Sight rear view mirror, Panoramic Roof, Privacy Glass, Upgraded Cabin Lighting, Aluminium trim, Andersen EV Charger

tutis
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:16 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by tutis » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:50 am

electric beagle wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:34 am
tutis wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:28 am
Delta5 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:19 am
If I was a JLR lawyer or their insurance company that covers product liability I would be very worried about a $Billion dollar claim.
I am happy to sign a waver it that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. Also, for such systems provide by a third party, there is usually "reliance" on the third party; meaning that any litigation would be deflected to Bosch, and JLR would claim they were acting in good faith.

Finally, if this is such a safety priority for JLR, then why wouldn't they de-activate it for MY20 and before? Is it then that for MY20 and before money is the priority (i.e. not reimbursing clients who paid for this feature and therefore not removing this feature), but for MY21 and later security is the priority? Fine for JLR to have the high moral ground, but they need to be consistent.
I suspect the issue is more complex and may centre around a new design or component not quite meeting its performance spec. Especially given the number of other manufacturers following a similar path. It may well be that the old component performs adequately but the new one does not (currently).
You're probably right in that they've found an issue, and other manufacturers may have as well. Still not sure how/why Volvo and others who also use Bosch would just ignore it then.

Regardless Jaguar should have been more forthcoming with its dealers and flagging that this feature has been removed so that clients wouldn't be left to discover this after taking delivery. JLR would also score some points if they could learn to communicate, explaining why this feature is removed or deactivated and whether they are working on a possible fix (or if Bosch is working on a fix). Unfortunately it seems JLR has some misguided pride in being as transparent with their customers about issues and potential fixes as companies were more than 20 years ago. I really hope the new CEO brings a wind of culture change at Jaguar.

Delta5
Posts: 400
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by Delta5 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:55 am

Jaguar certainly got the description given for their MY21 wrong but because other brands are dropping the feature it’s probably not just the technology fitted to the car that’s the problem - they could revert to the old system.

More likely the whole concept of cameras following white lines and lasers being reliable in bad conditions that is in question, maybe good enough as a “warning” feature not as an “active” feature.
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

tutis
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:16 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by tutis » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:59 am

Delta5 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:55 am
Jaguar certainly got the description given for their MY21 wrong but because other brands are dropping the feature it’s probably not just the technology fitted to the car that’s the problem - they could revert to the old system.

More likely the whole concept of cameras following white lines and lasers being reliable in bad conditions that is in question, maybe good enough as a “warning” feature not as an “active” feature.
That's a very plausible explanation, but assuming this is the reason and JLR and others knowing that this is a safety risk then why wouldn't they de-activate it from prior models ? It doesn't make sense that they have two different attitudes towards this risk

User avatar
Vandy2020
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:14 am
Location: Tennessee, United States

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by Vandy2020 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:54 pm

I'm assuming that it was removed for MY21 for liability reasons and/or component availability. The system is dangerous on secondary roads but I've found it to be nearly flawless on divided highways. I hope this feature returns in MY22 as Ford, Toyota, Hyundai and VW offer it in even their lowest-price models and it puts JLR at a competitive disadvantage.

Lane centering was a must-have when I was shopping for an EV this spring in the USA. The only other options at the time were the e-tron (too slow ;) ), the Taycan (too $$$) or the Tesla (too ubiquitous).
2019 HSE | Purchased May 2020 | Santorini Black | Ebony Interior | Air Suspension with Adaptive Dynamics | HUD |Cold Weather Package

electric beagle
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:23 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by electric beagle » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:43 pm

Vandy2020 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:54 pm
I'm assuming that it was removed for MY21 for liability reasons and/or component availability. The system is dangerous on secondary roads but I've found it to be nearly flawless on divided highways. I hope this feature returns in MY22 as Ford, Toyota, Hyundai and VW offer it in even their lowest-price models and it puts JLR at a competitive disadvantage.

Lane centering was a must-have when I was shopping for an EV this spring in the USA. The only other options at the time were the e-tron (too slow ;) ), the Taycan (too $$$) or the Tesla (too ubiquitous).
The tracking of the road for LKA is totally abysmal which may be part of the issue. It is very rare I ever hit the magic 2 green lines even on motorways. The detection of the lane borders is just crap compared to the highly reliable VW implementation on my wifes car which only very rarely reports amber on steer and lane assist.
MY21HSE, Portofino Blue, Oyster interior, Wireless Charger, Cupholder Covers, Active Air Suspension, Adaptive Dynamics, Clear Sight rear view mirror, Panoramic Roof, Privacy Glass, Upgraded Cabin Lighting, Aluminium trim, Andersen EV Charger

Dragos.balaban
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:56 pm
Location: Daventry / UK

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by Dragos.balaban » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:40 pm

@Delta5 there are no lasers involved :)

German320
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:08 pm
Location: Deutschland

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by German320 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm

Which Othello premium car realy quittet this assistent? In Germany I don’t see noone.
The Blue cat in town: EV320 MY21:
blue/black/oyster and some wood on 18“

Delta5
Posts: 400
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: Lane centring (aka Steering Assist) on MY21

Post by Delta5 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:16 am

Dragos.balaban wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:40 pm
@Delta5 there are no lasers involved :)
Quite correct it is a radar sensor that controls ACC
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

Post Reply