3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

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nis
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Luxembourg

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by nis » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:29 pm

Not to be a clever guy, but we have been EV fans since 2012. A Tesla Roadster 2.5s, a garage project by Tesla, but with a amazing technology for 2012 and over 300 Km range. 1 phase charging at max 70A. You need a lot of coffee stops to get anywhere far. Since then we have invested in a BMWi3 REX, which I still consider as the state of art with 3p AC and DC charging. We keep the i3 for the short trips, therefore our I-Pace can rest with the grandmother charger and we have no immediate problem locally. We love the I-Pace for the long hauls, it drives magnificently. My point is that the 3 phase 11 KW upgrade for 2021 I-Pace is to my mind only incremental and is not up to the standard we would want on the continent, where 22kW is a common level. Also, but may be on the drawing table, for a new I-Pace we should see at least 150 KW charging and even better a 800V system with 200kW charging capability. It would be a shame for such a lovely car if we have to continuously stay behind the leaders in the market.

CaptainJAG
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:55 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by CaptainJAG » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:37 pm

We will see what charging speed Jaguar will allow on the MY2021 and via update to the older MYs...
800V is a nice feature... have done a driving event with all kind of EVs 2 weeks ago... also 2 Porsche Taycan... Problem on 800V: you have to find a Charger being able to deliver it... there is only Ionity and EnBW chargers in Geemany where you can rely on 800V... the rest is gambling, if the charger is suitable or not...
The Apps do not show the type of charger, only max. Charging rate...
This can be at 800V or 400V ... you never know 🤪

Delta5
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Delta5 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm

I was wondering where you charge a Porsche on 800V. My solution was to charge 2 400V battery sections in parallel, combining them for driving the car, probably impractical but the alternative is dual voltage chargers.

Where can you charge a Taycan in the U.K. at present
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

Grunt
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:39 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Grunt » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:50 pm

Ian,

I like the idea indeed. Wouldn't be only for <2021MY I-Pace owners, by the way. Mercedes EQC is still limited to 7kW... And there are many more, Leaf, Ioniq, Kona & friends, virtually all plug-in hybrids etc.

There is IMO no point in going beyond 22kW AC. There are hardly any AC chargers that go over 22kW, the few that exist are almost always offering 50kW DC as well...

Size-wise should be ok.
These people offer a 3-phase 16A (actually using 2 phases) to 1 phase 32A charger, I imagine an AC to DC convertor needn't be bigger:

https://evtun.com/chargers/accelev-2-ph ... w-8kw.html

A particular painpoint will be heat though... At 22kW AC to DC you will likely loose 5-10%, meaning 1 to 2kW heat loss. Serious stuff, not something you leave hidden in the front/frunk and close the lid...

I found these AEC Energy Ukrainians producing a "DC travel charger". 3-phase AC to 20kW DC, €4500:
https://aec.energy/chargers/dc-travel-charger/en.html
It is the most compact solution I've come across, though still a bit clunky at 49x38x13cm and 30kg.

Sure, that is a lot more compact than the ECOTap 15, (78x48x22 cm), but still.

Abu Dhabi Dude
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:34 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Abu Dhabi Dude » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:07 am

Grunt wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:50 pm
Ian,

I like the idea indeed. Wouldn't be only for <2021MY I-Pace owners, by the way. Mercedes EQC is still limited to 7kW... And there are many more, Leaf, Ioniq, Kona & friends, virtually all plug-in hybrids etc.

There is IMO no point in going beyond 22kW AC. There are hardly any AC chargers that go over 22kW, the few that exist are almost always offering 50kW DC as well...

Size-wise should be ok.
These people offer a 3-phase 16A (actually using 2 phases) to 1 phase 32A charger, I imagine an AC to DC convertor needn't be bigger:

https://evtun.com/chargers/accelev-2-ph ... w-8kw.html

A particular painpoint will be heat though... At 22kW AC to DC you will likely loose 5-10%, meaning 1 to 2kW heat loss. Serious stuff, not something you leave hidden in the front/frunk and close the lid...

I found these AEC Energy Ukrainians producing a "DC travel charger". 3-phase AC to 20kW DC, €4500:
https://aec.energy/chargers/dc-travel-charger/en.html
It is the most compact solution I've come across, though still a bit clunky at 49x38x13cm and 30kg.

Sure, that is a lot more compact than the ECOTap 15, (78x48x22 cm), but still.
This would actually be really useful in Scotland. The evolt Compacts which don’t work at all well with the iPace (a well known issue) can provide up to 43 kw on AC. So the 40 kW one might make sense for some people. But the cost and the weight are a bit of an issue. However, in certain areas of Scotland it could potentially be the difference between driving home and coming home on the back of a truck.

sunnyjoe
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:04 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by sunnyjoe » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:16 am

Delta5 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm
I was wondering where you charge a Porsche on 800V. My solution was to charge 2 400V battery sections in parallel, combining them for driving the car, probably impractical but the alternative is dual voltage chargers.
That seems the wrong way round to me. The heaviest duty on the battery is rapid charging, not driving. Therefore it could make sense to have 2x 400 batteries charged in series (800V) and discharged in parallel (400V). This could minimise the cost of motors and inverters which need not be rated for 800V
Caesium blue SE, air suspension, adaptive dynamics, driver pack
Home charger: Ohme on Octopus Agile

Delta5
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Delta5 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:04 am

sunnyjoe wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:16 am
Delta5 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm
I was wondering where you charge a Porsche on 800V. My solution was to charge 2 400V battery sections in parallel, combining them for driving the car, probably impractical but the alternative is dual voltage chargers.
That seems the wrong way round to me. The heaviest duty on the battery is rapid charging, not driving. Therefore it could make sense to have 2x 400 batteries charged in series (800V) and discharged in parallel (400V). This could minimise the cost of motors and inverters which need not be rated for 800V
At the time I did not realize there were dual voltage chargers capable of charging at 400 or 800 volts. Charging will be faster at 800V and cables can be smaller for a given power.
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

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