3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

All Jaguar I-Pace related discussions
Tmatzen
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:37 pm
Location: Denmark

3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Tmatzen » Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:41 pm

Dear forum,

I am quite close to buy a pre-owned I-pace, but can see one major upgrade for the new (MY21) I-pace which is the 3-phase on-board charger (guess the power is 11kW = 3x230x16) compared to the 1-phase charger (7.3kW = 230*32).

Here in Denmark it is common to have a 3-phase 25A installation for domestic homes, so it is quite attractive to have the possibility of 3-phase charging.

Does anybody have a feeling if there will come a retrofit/upgrade opportunity for pre-MY21 I-PACEs to install a 3-phase charger?

Happy EV-driving :-)
/Torben

MvM
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:37 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by MvM » Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:53 pm

As far as I know, there is no upgrade possible. It is certainly not offered.

But, I would very much like to know if this is purely a JLR business decision or if it is a technical impossibility. I would assume the charging point is a sub-unit installed in the front of the car that can be replaced, for example if it would become defective.

Between now and 2-3 years, Jaguar dealers will be getting a host of second hand I-Paces.
I would think having the possibility of a (factory) upgrade to a three-phase charger would greatly increase their resale chances.

Tmatzen
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:37 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Tmatzen » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:44 pm

Hi,

Without having seen how the on-board charger is connected, is guess it is more a business decision than a technical challenge. Hopefully the internal interfaces (DC-power, control signals) between the on-board charger and the vehicle could be quite similar, so JLR could see a business in providing a three phase charger for existing I-PACEs.

I have not seen it yet, but I could imagine at some point we will see a dual-purpose traction inverter, I.e the inverter provinding power to the electric motors could also be used for charging.

/Torben

Abu Dhabi Dude
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:34 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Abu Dhabi Dude » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:49 pm

They have had to redesign the packaging of the front/froot area in order to accommodate the new three phase charger. I think the changes are all under plastic trim so not visible from the outside, but that’s why the three phase can’t be offered as a retro fit.

dernotte
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:34 pm
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by dernotte » Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:50 pm

Since L2 is mostly used at home, why do you consider important to have a 11kw vs 7kw. With a 7kw, you can charge your car from 0 to 100% in 12 to 14h. This scenario is definitively not the most common scenario when you charge at home, nobody wait for a 0 SOC, but anyway, a full charge overnight can refill the battery up to 100%. Why does it matter you if the charge take 12h or 8h if the charge is done overnight while you sleep. At least for my personal use case, I will not put a cent on an upgrade like this, my 7kw is more than enough to do the job while I am sleeping.

MvM
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:37 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by MvM » Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:15 pm

Just in the Netherlands there are over 50000 public charters and EACH of Them is a 3-phase charger.

Now, the I-Pace van only use one phase do it charges at 3.7 kW instead of 11 kW.
That's quite a difference!

That's alsof why the number 1 complaint was from the introduction on the slow charging..

Delta5
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Delta5 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:08 pm

All things are possible but at a cost, it would probably be easier to have a stand alone 3 phase to DC charger to charge at home, at present these would be too expensive but given a reasonable volume might be possible.
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

Grunt
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:39 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by Grunt » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:11 pm

Delta5 wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:08 pm
All things are possible but at a cost, it would probably be easier to have a stand alone 3 phase to DC charger to charge at home, at present these would be too expensive but given a reasonable volume might be possible.
That exists already, and other solutions...

There are home charger solutions converting 3-phase 16A into 1-phase 32A, giving you 7,7kW (or even 8kW if you choose a 250V boost). Costs around €1500.

A different solution that already exists is a home charger that converts your 3-phase into DC. I've come across 10kW and 15kW (and more) solutions, starting around €4000 if memory serves.

I don't really have a need for either, with a 40A 3-phase connection at home. In fact, even the granny charger is almost always good enough.

What could be interesting is to have a mobile 3-phase-to-1-phase convertor, or better,a mobile 3-phase-to-DC convertor. To take advantage of more than 1/3rd of the ubiquitous 11kW and 22kW destination chargers...

CaptainJAG
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:55 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by CaptainJAG » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:37 pm

Chargers like this exist... I would not call them „mobile“ as they are quite boxy and heavy, but you can put them inti the trunk
The charger goes for 10.000€ and can do up to 45kw DC charging
If you plug it in a 22kw Type 2 charger, it will give you 20kw charging CCS for the I-Pace 😎

3F92581F-4009-4905-822B-0941DD2375BA.jpeg


ianipace
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:11 pm
Location: Cardiff, UK

Re: 3 phase on-board charger upgrade?

Post by ianipace » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:47 pm

Just seen your picture CaptainJag. I'm sure I've seen a smaller version.

This subject is an interesting one.
Why no 3 phase at the launch of the car in 2018?
A few explanations did the rounds. 1st. VW group bought up all the hardware that was needed to install 3 phase capable charging in the car! 2nd. JLR were convinced that the CCS DC system was the way to go as the consortium was very persuasive!
Added to that the AC option was a 'granny' system at best!

I think that maybe the answer was more fundamental than that. You will notice that Tesla have the charge point at the rear. There is much more space around the rear to put charging components, under the rear seats as in the Tesla. That space isn't in the front and design team objected to having the charge flap at the rear. It was considered that it could be mistaken for a fuel filler cap! Also they didn't want to be seen copying Tesla!

It has taken a lot of time and effort to give the 2021MY car 3 phase charging a-be-it only11Kw. That is all the room they could find, as well as shrinking the original package a bit.

They didn't have the clever guy who was bought from Tesla to join Lucid Motors! He has found space virtually everywhere and the charging system is something to behold. He also worked out that batteries only needed heating and cooling a top and bottom, freeing up enough space to add even more cells!

So it just isn't possible to retrofit 3 phase in a I-Pace!

I really do like the idea of having a portable 3 phase in and DC out even given it could give between 22Kw and 43Kw DC depending on the AC current in from virtually all public charging points!

With modern electronics this isn't too involved. The size would probably be akin to a small briefcase. The bulk would be the input cable/socket and CCS output cable. I'm sure the handshaking could be sorted using the Type 2 AC plug into the public charging point.

Would there be a demand?
All those Dutch and German folk who have 3 phase at home and a single phase I-Pace along with the majority of French owners who are suffering a lack of CCS charging points all over France!

Just think all those Tesla destination charge points would be very useable for us I-Pace owners.

Now who on this forum is good with a soldering iron?

Stay safe

Ian
MY2019 SE in Caesium Blue. Panoramic roof and 20" wheels. Ohme Smart charger.

Post Reply