Battery degraded to 80%

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i-Tray
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:57 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by i-Tray » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:24 am

SammyD wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:50 am
....My last full slow charge showed 83.1kWh at 100%. A big difference from before the car went in when it showed 64.3kWh capacity.
Great to hear your battery issues were fixed under warranty. Anxious time for me right now! The last charge I did 2 days ago
was from about 15-20 miles left (let's say 10%) and it only added 43.3 kWh before stopping & saying 'fully charged', but yet the Remote app was saying the charge level was only 80%. Which suggests that the 43.3 kWh added was at best 70% of the battery, which would give 62 kWh at 100%. Similar to your situation. I didn't have Wattcat at the time, but now have it on my son's Android so can start doing the maths properly.

Booked in at the dealers for Wednesday, 2 days time. Hopefully that will be enough time to run it down, then measure the max charge it can take; and then run it down a good bit before going into the dealers. Quick trip from London to the coast and back should do it one (one benefit of 'work from home' :D )
First Edition, Photon red, 22" wheels.

Maxwell_400
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:09 am
Location: Norway

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by Maxwell_400 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:53 pm

Jelle v/d Meer wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:51 am
Maxwell_400 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:35 am
Jelle v/d Meer wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:12 pm
My MY2019 has done 53,000km, have DC charged at 100kW+ charger around 90 times, have been near or below 0% SoC about a dozen times, I done my fair share of traffic light sprints, 200km/h stints and driven multiple laps on a race track so plenty of stuff that would degrade the battery faster however when fully charged WattCatt shows still above 84kWh loaded and GOM shows around 450km range.

Only bad thing for battery health that I am not guilty of is that It has never been fully charged for more than 36hrs or below 20% for more than 4hrs.
When you charge on Ionity, what is the voltage at 100% ? 80%?
I only charged to 100% once at Ionity (see attached) but that was at an ABB Ionity charger so only shows SoC %, time charging and kWh charged.
My experience is that in terms of voltage it is just below 400 when the charging sessions starts and than over time slowly climbs to 420-430 volt as SoC % goes up and sadly amps goes down.
Have actually not paid much attention what it is when charging at 80% or higher.
Ionity Charging Session.xlsx
That is some spreadsheet ! You really turn charging into science or even a piece of art. My thinking was that a fully charged cell is 4.15 volts so 100% (if top buffer margin is 0.05v) should be 448 volts. 80% might be around 420 volts, maybe one can use the voltage to determine the real charge level. When a single cell breaks the entire pack is down to 75% capacity or about 60+kWh. This case sounds much more serious, I would guess it stopped charging at 80% because it reached the maximum imbalance of the cells. It needs to stop charging to prevent overcharging of the faulty module, the working modules however will not get enough charge.
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, 20C, TCU 19.2, BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

i-Tray
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:57 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by i-Tray » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:28 am

Update: Jaguar dealer ran tests, couldn’t find anything but they accepted they do not test kWh of the battery; they simply check SoC. Admittedly they got the car charged to ‘98%’ which was better than I’d achieved in last 2 months. Range increased too, by 2-3%.

They said they had updated the software, which I had only had updated to h264 two weeks earlier at the same dealer; BUT the Wattcat app continues to show fully charged at just 50.1kWh.

Next step is to record kWh used down to near 0%, then record charging session (wattcat app can create a log every 15mins during a charge) to hopefully give the technician enough info to take this issue further up the chain. Technician says battery does not have faulty cells, says that would have been obvious from their tests, so needs more evidence of low capacity. He’d never heard of wattcat app.

09720CD8-432E-40EA-A3CC-3A4219FE1C0C.jpeg

First Edition, Photon red, 22" wheels.

Jaganon
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:43 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by Jaganon » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:25 am

Sorry to hear of your problem i-Tray. I think my FE has a similar loss of battery to around 62KWh and 150 miles range. I’ve sent my spreadsheet to the dealer and will get it in soon. But no loan car until October! Hopefully JLR might have one hanging around when it’s been in for a week.
I’ll keep you posted and good luck with your situation.
I Pace FE MY19 delivered 30.10.18: Santorini Black, Oyster, 22” Carbon
18.2

SammyD
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:44 pm
Location: N.E Hampshire, UK

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by SammyD » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:15 pm

I found that demonstrating how much energy you put into the car and how much the range increased was a good step towards getting my battery fixed.

Here, Wattcat came to the rescue. From the charging logs and information from my Pod-Point App (home charger) I was able to show that a given amount of energy resulted in a certain % increase in battery capacity and range really demonstrated to the dealer technician that the battery had a problem.

Make the data easy to understand and in a form that can be sent to JLR for verification. Once they agree that there is a problem than there are a series of special tests that the dealer has to make (under direction of JLR) in order to determine which cells are faulty.

As time goes by and the dealers get more experienced with working on BEV's this whole process will become a lot easier.
Driving "Hirundo Rustica" since 15th Mar 2019. Lovely Jubbly :D :D
S20C since 11th Dec 2020 Maps : whatever is current/can be bothered to download

Jaganon
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:43 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by Jaganon » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:14 pm

Thanks SammyD- the main evidence points I’ve collected are the very low miles travelled from100% SOC and then the KWh pumped in to get back to 100% SOC. The GOM has never been accurate For me and I just put it down to never getting tired of warp mode. But since H264 it’s too obvious it can’t just be my right foot.
The car’s been at Harwoods Croydon for 2 months of its short life, hopefully this won’t make it 3. 🙈
I Pace FE MY19 delivered 30.10.18: Santorini Black, Oyster, 22” Carbon
18.2

i-Tray
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:57 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by i-Tray » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm

Jaganon wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:14 pm
The car’s been at Harwoods Croydon for 2 months of its short life, hopefully this won’t make it 3. 🙈
Jaganon, I'm also at Harwoods Croydon (!) and they were keen to discuss range and how driving styles affect range (I get all that and that's not my complaint); but just like you, I'm now tracking the miles run, energy consumed (including regen) and the kWh pumped back in. As the spreadsheet builds up over a couple of full cycles I should have enough to prove my point. I'm also tracking battery kWh in WattCat (android only). So far all the evidence points to a battery with just 50 kWh and a range of under 150 miles.

Let's keep in touch on this!

I've got two weeks of trips through Shropshire and Devon coming up, so won't take the car in (+spreadsheets) until Sept. I'll be keen to hear how you get on.
First Edition, Photon red, 22" wheels.

fa147
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Location: London / United Kingdom

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by fa147 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:14 pm

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but if you are worried about the range of the car and it is far removed from what it should be, you can ask the dealer to perform a battery health check. Just make sure to AC charge to 100% letting it finish and then run it down to 10-20% twice before taking it to them.
This helps to re balance the cells and then allow the dealer to get a more accurate health from the cells.
I-Pace MY20 HSE, Corris Grey, Ebony/Ebony Interior, 20” Grey & Diamond Turned, Panoramic Roof
S20C1_20.48.3-635557 | Telematics: 16.2 | Map 08.030.0116.0157
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Buzzer
Posts: 160
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Location: Bucks UK

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by Buzzer » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:34 am

I may be developing a similar lose in capacity, just charged overnight and showing 163 miles with 100%. Its due an update to the battery module anyhow so will take it in to see what they say. My current consumption is showing 33.7 kWh per 100 miles averaged over the last few trips. I suppose the aircon could be taking some of it but would would not expect to loose 25% or so.
i-Pace SE Black, Ivory interior, 360 camera, 20" wheels
other.... cars Lotus, Westfield, Classic Range Rover.

i-Tray
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:57 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Battery degraded to 80%

Post by i-Tray » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:36 pm

Buzzer wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:34 am
I may be developing a similar lose in capacity, just charged overnight and showing 163 miles with 100%. Its due an update to the battery module anyhow so will take it in to see what they say. My current consumption is showing 33.7 kWh per 100 miles averaged over the last few trips. I suppose the aircon could be taking some of it but would would not expect to loose 25% or so.
Hope not, Buzzer, but it seems the key to not wasting a trip to the dealers (where they lecture you on driving habits and the vagaries of estimated mileage) is to have a complete data set, starting from near zero, of kWh pumped into the battery to full, all subsequent trips & kWh used back down to low %, then repeat the cycle again. What you're looking for is something approaching 83-84 kWh in and out on each cycle. That would prove the battery still has the right capacity, and that low mileage is coming from other factors (high temperatures we've had recently in UK will reduce mileage, aircon deffo cuts mileage, your 20" wheels too, driving speed obviously, etc). However, if, as I am, you're not only able to push anywhere near 80+ kWh into the battery until it's "full" (I'm getting a little over 45 kWh now), then that would support your fear that there's an issue with the battery. So, try arm yourself with data first, hand it all over to the tech and hopefully you'll avoid the lecture about your right foot!
First Edition, Photon red, 22" wheels.

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