100kW charging: It’s a joke

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denopa
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:57 pm
Location: London UK

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by denopa » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:17 pm

Yep I hope this is left open, even though I don’t plan on using it unless I really need to

Delta5
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by Delta5 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:22 pm

Question. Ambient temperature has been mentioned in connection with charging, surely it is battery temperature that regulates charging speed, so if you have been driving quickly the battery will be warm and charging should be quicker.
Does ambient temperature play any part in charging?.
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

CaptainJAG
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:55 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by CaptainJAG » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:47 pm

Ambient temperature will affect battery temperature during driving of course, in two ways:

1. the battery stays cooler by being chilled from cool wind during driving
2. Battery stays cooler as the heat pump will take some heat energy from the battery to heT the cabin.

Result: the battery runs cooler as on warmer days

Ambient temperature will also affect charging, even it is an indirect correlation:

The car tries to bring up battery temperature into perfect range as fast as possible... that is around 38 to 45 degrees Celsius (the LG Chem Pouch Cell likes this temperature most for fast charging). If the ambient temperature is low, the battery will need a longer time to heat up. If the battery reaches a certain temperature (I think it is 38 or more degrees, but I still look into the numbers) at a designated SoC (around 35% or so), the charging will continue at 100kw over 40% SoC up to 65%.... if the battery is below that temperature, it will throttle down charging speed according to a temperature based gradient...

JLR was very carefull in temperature settings for the battery... the cooling fans started quite early on the H264 BECM Software... I have a newer BECM Software on my I-Pace know. The fans do a short check runup at the start of charging and remain off until the battery temperature reaches 42 degrees, then they kick in
They kick in a little earlier at warm ambient temperatures, when battery temperature rises too fast (around 38 degrees)
There is the factor ambient temperature again

It is a very complex topic, you can compare it to getting the right mixture air / fuel for combustion engines.

I hope that helps a little

Abu Dhabi Dude
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Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:34 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by Abu Dhabi Dude » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:21 pm

There is another temperature related impact which is rarely mentioned, but there are also some rapid chargers which are less effective at lower temperatures. For example, the older ABB chargers used by Ionity were known to suffer quite badly from this. It may be that they have been updated now to prevent this (I’m not sure) but certainly at one point they were known to charge slower in cold temperatures. I haven’t heard of an update, but there may have been one.

Delta5
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by Delta5 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:38 am

Thanks for that explanation I was under the impression that the optimum battery temperate was 25-30C rather than 35+, so clearly chilling is going to be significant. I have noticed on a recent road trip on a cold day high power consumption on the first 12 mile leg as the battery warmed up, then after a fast 180 mile leg charged very quickly,
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

kermit68
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by kermit68 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:55 am

CaptainJAG wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:47 pm
They kick in a little earlier at warm ambient temperatures, when battery temperature rises too fast (around 38 degrees)
I had the same experience this summer using 50kw chargers with ambient temperature well above 30°C. The heat pump always stared to cool the battery as soon as the battery reached 37 / 38 °C and until the temperature was 35 or 36 °C.

The problem is that when you're at 50kw charger the 3kw used by the heat pump cannot be supplied "on top" by the charger so the real charging speed was less then 50kw which is already a pain ... that's why I refer to 50kw chargers as "the not so fast chargers" :mrgreen:
Unfortunately in Southern Italy there were no HPC chargers this summer. The situation is improving though as now there are 2 Ionity in service and 2 others are under construction right now.
MY20 Yulong White SE, 20", air suspension, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs

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