100kW charging: It’s a joke

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Maxwell_400
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:09 am
Location: Norway

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by Maxwell_400 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:15 am

Jelle v/d Meer wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:59 pm
CaptainJAG wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:44 pm
To put some oil into the fire of this discussion...
I had 102kw (showing on the Ionity Charger) of charging speed yesterday from 6% to 35% SoC 👍😁

The I-Pace can do it... I think the limits of battery temperature into the BMS are too tight to see the 100kw on regular basis.... if JLR will loosen the limits a bit, everything is allright... the pouch cells can take quite a bit of stress...
That is exactly the problem - the BMS is set so tight that the window in which 100kW is allowed is extremely narrow. I have done well over 80 100kW+ DC chargers and with upcoming summer trip that will be a 100, so far only 1 gave me 100kW for 30 minutes, once for 10 minutes and the rest all 5 minutes or shorter and many more never even got 100kW.

It is the same marketing bullshit as Tesla stating that the Model 3 can charge at 250kW - purely technically looking that is true however it does say it is only in optimum conditions, at the most powerful chargers and only for a short period of time.
When Jaguar advertised with 0-80% in 40 minutes (something I still have not seen) it sets a fair expectation of their customers that in most situations on the right charger it can be achieved. Obviously on a 200amp charger it is not possible or with cold weather or when already 60% full.
That said it is still strange that even if it only runs at 200amps so 80-84kW it already starts to taper off at 50% SoC while to achieve 0-80% in 40 minutes you need a just above 100kW average for 40 minutes.

The ideal circumstances seem to be after a bit faster drive charge from a low SoC % while outside temperature is around 20 degrees and ideally light rain or some wind for natural cooling effect.

PS: Below session is the ONLY session I ever saw the I-pace charging with between 200 and 250amps. All other sessions that started with 250amps the drop was instant to sub 200amps.
Best Charging Ever.JPG
I do not really understand why they haven't fixed it, it looks more like a software problem than a battery problem. When one charges the pack it will heat up and get warm and if the ambient temperature is high it is difficult to cool the pack but 100kW charging does not even work at lower ambient temperatures. The ambient temperature needs to be in a very narrow window, why? I would have guessed that anything between 0 to 25 ambient should be perfect for charging. And it is always throttling down, when charging the coolant will balance the temperature of the cells so in my simple mind it should be possible to increase the charging power when the cells are temperature balanced. By the way, the battery pack has 72 temperature sensors (two for each module).
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, H264, H280, TCU 18.2, BECM: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

ghost
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:08 pm
Location: Norway

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by ghost » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:32 pm

I think it's more or less confirmed that the problem is that JLR has some kind of agreement with LG regarding battery guarantee. A charging curve is part of this agreement. To change it JLR needs to amend the agreement. Most likely this is purely a money issue. LG wants more money than JLR is willing to pay. I believe owners need to start putting pressure on JLR. They blow it and needs to bite the dust.

FENorway
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:06 am
Location: Norge

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by FENorway » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:11 pm

ghost wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:32 pm
I think it's more or less confirmed that the problem is that JLR has some kind of agreement with LG regarding battery guarantee. A charging curve is part of this agreement. To change it JLR needs to amend the agreement.
Did they sign the agreement with LG after they started advertising about charging speed?
I believe they knew early on what limitations the car had.
FE Corris grey light oyster/light oyster Performance 22" 5069 & 18" 19C_19.46.4-458817 and 18.2

fa147
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:25 pm
Location: London / United Kingdom

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by fa147 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:14 pm

FENorway wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:11 pm
Did they sign the agreement with LG after they started advertising about charging speed?
I believe they knew early on what limitations the car had.
It’s always easier to do wrong and ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission to do wrong in the first place!!!
I-Pace MY20 HSE, Corris Grey, Ebony/Ebony Interior, 20” Grey & Diamond Turned, Panoramic Roof
IMC: S20B 20.27.3-568398 | Telematics: 16.2 | Map 08.030.0110.0153
Home Charging: Zappi 2.0

Rbrandwijk
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:30 pm
Location: NETHERLANDS

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by Rbrandwijk » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:25 pm

I have a OBD2 connector and can read the battery temperature. Even at a battery temp. of 27 degr. C, the I Pace will not charge at 100kW. So the temp. window is very narrow. We definitely have to increase the pressure at JLR.

dernotte
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:34 pm
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by dernotte » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:31 pm

Rbrandwijk wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:25 pm
I have a OBD2 connector and can read the battery temperature.
What app are using to read this ? IOS or Android ?

kermit68
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by kermit68 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:12 am

dernotte wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:31 pm
Rbrandwijk wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:25 pm
I have a OBD2 connector and can read the battery temperature.
What app are using to read this ? IOS or Android ?
It should be a beta testing of this app:
https://www.powercruisecontrol.com/

I'm using it too and as far as I know it's the only app the grabs I-Pace data from OBD2 bus.
MY20 Yulong White SE, 20", air suspension, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs

Rbrandwijk
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:30 pm
Location: NETHERLANDS

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by Rbrandwijk » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:54 am

Yes, I use power cruise control for checking the battery temp.

dernotte
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:34 pm
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by dernotte » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:57 pm

any IOS app can read CANbus as well ?

kermit68
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: 100kW charging: It’s a joke

Post by kermit68 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:46 pm

dernotte wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:57 pm
any IOS app can read CANbus as well ?
Read canbus is one thing, understand which PIDs are related to is a completely different story. I tried unsuccesfully to grab some data from the OBD port with many different apps. As far as I know Power Cruise Control (PCC) is the only app at the momend that is able to decrypt the canbus data. In theory I know also why but is covered by an NDA ... ;)
MY20 Yulong White SE, 20", air suspension, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs

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