Bi-Directional Charging

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KEV777
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Bi-Directional Charging

Post by KEV777 » Thu May 21, 2020 3:42 am

Does anyone have any idea whether this is something that could be software activated in the i-Pace in the future or does it require hardware to be fitted or retrofitted? It seems to be gaining interest with other EV manufacturers, and home owners/renters could certainly benefit from utilising this technology. Anyone have any technical knowledge with regards to bi-directioinal charging they could share?
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sunnyjoe
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by sunnyjoe » Thu May 21, 2020 9:47 am

This would need hardware changes (suitable internal charger), external compatible charger, battery warranty changes and electricity contract changes.

The only vehicle I am aware of that permits "vehicle to grid charging" in the Nissan Leaf. Octopus is offering a deal incorporating this feature
https://www.octopusev.com/powerloop

As an electrical engineer I think the concept has merit to help the transition to a carbon free economy.
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KEV777
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by KEV777 » Thu May 21, 2020 9:54 am

sunnyjoe wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:47 am
This would need hardware changes (suitable internal charger), external compatible charger, battery warranty changes and electricity contract changes.

The only vehicle I am aware of that permits "vehicle to grid charging" in the Nissan Leaf. Octopus is offering a deal incorporating this feature
https://www.octopusev.com/powerloop

As an electrical engineer I think the concept has merit to help the transition to a carbon free economy.
According to articles below Tesla Model 3 is fitted with bi-directional charging capability but was not promoted. Model Y is next to come with capability.
https://www.techtimes.com/articles/2497 ... -homes.htm
https://electrek.co/2020/05/19/tesla-bi ... -features/
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SammyD
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by SammyD » Thu May 21, 2020 10:19 am

This is the logical next step. Use the power in our cars to run our homes. Some people are putting in solutions such as a Tesla Powerwall (expensive IMHO) to utilise days like these (sunny) or cheapo leccy in the middle of the night and then use that stored power at times of peak demand (16:00-21:00 daily).
We could use our cars rather than a powerwall.
Once you start to understand what energy your home uses, you do things like put the washer on when your PV is generating. It reduces your energy consumption from the grid. Imagine some nice bit of electronics allowing you to run your washer from the energy stored in your car and then replenishing that energy in the middle of the night when charges are less?
Win - Win -win

That will be the way of the future. Every home will have a proper smart controller that can manage all this stuff not those frankly dumb things called 'smart meters' we currently have. They are anything but smart IMHO.
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RobN
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by RobN » Thu May 21, 2020 10:40 am

SammyD wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:19 am
This is the logical next step. Use the power in our cars to run our homes. Some people are putting in solutions such as a Tesla Powerwall (expensive IMHO) to utilise days like these (sunny) or cheapo leccy in the middle of the night and then use that stored power at times of peak demand (16:00-21:00 daily).
We could use our cars rather than a powerwall.
Once you start to understand what energy your home uses, you do things like put the washer on when your PV is generating. It reduces your energy consumption from the grid. Imagine some nice bit of electronics allowing you to run your washer from the energy stored in your car and then replenishing that energy in the middle of the night when charges are less?
Win - Win -win

That will be the way of the future. Every home will have a proper smart controller that can manage all this stuff not those frankly dumb things called 'smart meters' we currently have. They are anything but smart IMHO.
Hi Sammy,

I fully agree this has got to be one of the ways we get our carbon footprint down and pretty exciting too.

Whether our generation of I-Pace will be capable I'm not sure, but I think this approach in general has great merit.

Best, Rob
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SammyD
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by SammyD » Thu May 21, 2020 11:51 am

RobN wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:40 am
Hi Sammy,

I fully agree this has got to be one of the ways we get our carbon footprint down and pretty exciting too.

Whether our generation of I-Pace will be capable I'm not sure, but I think this approach in general has great merit.

Best, Rob
My guess is that the I-Pace won't get this so for us, it will be batteries connected to the house I'm afraid.
However, in the future it will be different and all new houses will come with Solar, an EV Charger and optional Battery/electronics to use the EV battery.

Sadly, the UK building industry is only concerned with throwing up houses that are to minimum spec environmentally with rooms that you can't swing a cat in yet are classed as a 'double bedroom' and charging the earth for total [redacted]. My 90 yr old house isn't perfect but at least a double bedroom is capable of having a king size bed with room to spare. I'll stop before I really start ranting.

This means that we will have to do our own thing when it comes to improving our own carbon footprint. My home (inc car) has just gone into the Energy positive for the year. Last year was just about break even. Not driving the car very far helps! A 35kwH battery and an air sourced heat pump would do wonders for it.
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IpacePete
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by IpacePete » Thu May 21, 2020 1:32 pm

When I looking for a charger wallbox was just launching the quasar there 1st bi-directional charger. I emailed them and asked if they was going to do a CCS version. The answer is yes it was planned for this year. One of there technical developers phoned me and spoke to me about this and I even offered my I Pace as a test site. Unfortunately they did a deal with octopus and put CCS on hold. I was under the impression that the charger controls the flow direction without any changes to the car although I could be wrong there.
Decided I couldn't wait so I brought a Zappi which works very well with my solar panels.
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Abu Dhabi Dude
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by Abu Dhabi Dude » Thu May 21, 2020 1:46 pm

I’m very reluctant to be an early adopter of v2g. It sounds like a wonderful idea, but I am very concerned about the increase in the number of charge cycles the car will go through. I would be worried about the level of degradation this would cause and the reduction in the lifespan of the battery pack. It may prove to be an unfounded fear but I would not like to be an early tester of it for that reason.

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KEV777
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by KEV777 » Thu May 21, 2020 2:47 pm

Abu Dhabi Dude wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 1:46 pm
I’m very reluctant to be an early adopter of v2g. It sounds like a wonderful idea, but I am very concerned about the increase in the number of charge cycles the car will go through. I would be worried about the level of degradation this would cause and the reduction in the lifespan of the battery pack. It may prove to be an unfounded fear but I would not like to be an early tester of it for that reason.
Yes agree using up battery life with more cycles will be a concern, but I guess you would only use EV battery to feed house energy requirements at night, not feed stored power back to energy grid. This would mean only a small percentage battery use each night, not a full cycle discharge & recharge. I would also imagine timing and usage parameters/limits could be preset. I can't imagine this type of use would substantially reduce life of battery? I would be happy to use say up to 10 kW from my battery each night if it meant no draw from grid and therefore no electricity charge from energy supplier. I would then recharge car during day once sun shining and utilise home PV or fast charger when out..win win!
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scm
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Re: Bi-Directional Charging

Post by scm » Thu May 21, 2020 3:12 pm

One potential downside is getting in the car in the morning to do a 250 mile drive and find that your battery has been feeding the grid all night! ;)

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