8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

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patkinson1966
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by patkinson1966 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:35 am

Good that they demonstrate they want to continually improve the platform. Let's face it, it's the best electric car out here in the wild...

I just hope they sort the logic around the preferred charging which should be:

Set "Start-Time" then Set "End-Time" OR "Percentage Required."

Simple and most flexible logic. That way I can get preferred charging to work and stop receiving "there isn't time to charge your car to full before you leave!
Corris Grey First Edition.


Jelle v/d Meer
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by Jelle v/d Meer » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:11 pm

Chutche wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:10 am
Autocar I-pace range increased from 201 to 252 after dealer update.Repoted this morning after variable journeys.
That is just a system reset - don't really like those as they massively overstate reality and it takes a few trips to get it down again to a more accurate reflection of reality.
I-pace S + HUD, Drive Pack, Light Oyster Sport Seats, Elec Tailgate, DAB+ & heated windshield I Ceasium Blue & 18" wheels


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anorak
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by anorak » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:06 pm

Maxwell_400 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:05 am
Why not use the EPA numbers ?

I-Pace, EPA 234 miles/377km
I agree, much closer to reality and only slightly optimistic in my experience.

I've averaged a total range (and consumption) of almost exactly 90% of the EPA figures in my last 3 EVs - 2013 LEAF, 2018 LEAF and 2019 I-Pace.
I Pace EV400 S, Caesium blue, Oyster leather, 18" wheels
MY19, delivered 01/2019
IMC: S19B_19.40.4-436082 || Telematics: 17.2
Now on its 2nd front EPIC


JohnGriff
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by JohnGriff » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:27 pm

In reply to Jelle v/d Meer post Monday 5th November regarding comparison of charging speeds (old versus anticipated) with the promised 107kW update.

I created an estimated charging curve that would give the published 0-80% SOC in 40 minutes. As you see below it assumes that the maximum kW/h speed of 107kW that jaguar says the I Pace can support would need to be supported from 0%-35% SOC continuing at 100kW to 65% SOC.

I used 84.3kW as the Nett Useable battery capacity and calculated that the average charge effect over 40 minutes would work out as 100.7kW/H in order to deliver 67.36kW.

If my numbers are in the right ball park, then this would represent a huge increase in what I have seen the 10+ times I have charged at a Super Fast charger (>100kW) over the last 13 months. As an example the best I have seen for 20% - 80% SOC this summer was 43 minutes
with a maximum effect of 83kW that started to fall off a cliff from 50% SOC and was down to 49kW at 80%!!

Without lowering significantly, the optimum battery temperature, currently 30C which I understand is needed to get 107kW to kick in below 10% SOC. We will never see the improvement needed to give us the promised charging time Jaguar published 31st January 2018 be it in summer here in Norway let alone winter.

No point in crowing about an improved charging curve (that only matches previously published specs), if the optimal battery temp is not achievable, unless we have a sweltering summer or live in the Middle East.

Estimert Ladekurv 0-80 40 mins.png

FE Corris Grey 20" Delivered 14.10.18
IMC: S19B_19.40.4-436082
Telematics: 16.2
BCM Update August 2019


******
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by ****** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:51 pm

JohnGriff wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:27 pm
In reply to Jelle v/d Meer post Monday 5th November regarding comparison of charging speeds (old versus anticipated) with the promised 107kW update.

I created an estimated charging curve that would give the published 0-80% SOC in 40 minutes. As you see below it assumes that the maximum kW/h speed of 107kW that jaguar says the I Pace can support would need to be supported from 0%-35% SOC continuing at 100kW to 65% SOC.

I used 84.3kW as the Nett Useable battery capacity and calculated that the average charge effect over 40 minutes would work out as 100.7kW/H in order to deliver 67.36kW.

If my numbers are in the right ball park, then this would represent a huge increase in what I have seen the 10+ times I have charged at a Super Fast charger (>100kW) over the last 13 months. As an example the best I have seen for 20% - 80% SOC this summer was 43 minutes
with a maximum effect of 83kW that started to fall off a cliff from 50% SOC and was down to 49kW at 80%!!

Without lowering significantly, the optimum battery temperature, currently 30C which I understand is needed to get 107kW to kick in below 10% SOC. We will never see the improvement needed to give us the promised charging time Jaguar published 31st January 2018 be it in summer here in Norway let alone winter.

No point in crowing about an improved charging curve (that only matches previously published specs), if the optimal battery temp is not achievable, unless we have a sweltering summer or live in the Middle East.

Estimert Ladekurv 0-80 40 mins.png
That all sounds about right and my charging experience matches yours. On Ionity I went from 18 to 80% in 43 minutes. I actually was charging at 102 kw for the first three minutes but then it suddenly dropped to 81. After that it built back up very slowly to 84 at around 49-50% and then tapered slowly to 53 kw at 80%.

8FC71130-0B3D-4B81-8756-EBAF50DB1452.jpeg



ecatoid
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by ecatoid » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:20 pm

Goshdarnit wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:51 pm

That all sounds about right and my charging experience matches yours. On Ionity I went from 18 to 80% in 43 minutes. I actually was charging at 102 kw for the first three minutes but then it suddenly dropped to 81. After that it built back up very slowly to 84 at around 49-50% and then tapered slowly to 53 kw at 80%.
I have done quite a lot charging sessions at super fast chargers (mostly Ionity), and this is exactly the behavior I got consistently. Started at ~100kW, dropped to ~80kW after 2-3 minutes, and then slowly came down to around 50kW at 80% SoC. This was roughly independent from the environment temperature, I did charges at >30°C down to maybe 10°C outside temperature.
So far the explanation from the dealer was that charging speed is limited based on battery temperature to protect the battery.
So I am hoping and waiting for the 107kW update.

@Goshdarnit: Nice chart! How did you do the logging of the values?
I-Pace EV400S, Fuji white, MY20, delivered 06/2019
S19B_19.35.5-418001/16.2


******
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by ****** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:51 pm

ecatoid wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:20 pm

@Goshdarnit: Nice chart! How did you do the logging of the values?
Believe it or not, manually! I videoed the entire charging session, recording the charger screen. Then replayed the video, pausing every minute to record the car’s current SOC and the power added by the charger. Then a simple calculation to work out the charge power for the previous minute. Painfully slow, but the Ionity chargers in the U.K. don’t give us a kW value during the charging session. Longwinded but it worked.


ecatoid
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by ecatoid » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:13 pm

With the Ionity chargers in Germany it would have been one step easier, as they show the current charging power in kW.

20191102_104147.jpg

Good idea with the video camera though.
I-Pace EV400S, Fuji white, MY20, delivered 06/2019
S19B_19.35.5-418001/16.2


******
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Location: UK

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by ****** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:16 pm

ecatoid wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:13 pm
With the Ionity chargers in Germany it would have been one step easier, as they show the current charging power in kW.20191102_104147.jpg
Good idea with the video camera though.
Yes I know. Funnily enough I was just discussing that with Garry. I wish our chargers had that information on them. Maybe some day Jag will allow the car to show us our charging speed in kW rather than in mph but until then, it’s the video camera for me!


RichT
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Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by RichT » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:33 pm

Regarding "8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?"
- does anyone really think this is going to happen?
Has there ever been an official JLR communication which mentions this?

It was rumoured 13 months ago when I collected my car.
Now I'm skeptical it will happen before I return the car next November.
But more worrying - I'm not even sure there will be an improved IPace available to buy by then!

It was remarkable that JLR could create the IPace from scratch in maybe 3 years so I was
expecting some pretty interesting updates after an additional year of development.

All I really want is the brake pedal improved so it feels like I might actually be able to stop
when I brake suddenly!


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