Home Charging in UK

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malakai
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Location: United States

Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by malakai » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:51 pm

Sorry in advance if this doesn't apply to the UK -

In the US, you can have your electrician install a NEMA 14-50R type outlet on the wall of the garage, on its own breaker. That's the same outlet put into new construction for electric clothes dryers, and is also used at a lot of RV parks. Then you can buy a wall mounted charger that plugs into the outlet, instead of one that needs to be hard wired into the circuit.

The advantage being that if you ever need to swap out the charger for a newer one, you don't need to re-hire an electrician to do it for you. Unplug the old charger, plug in the new, and you're done. I had to RMA a failed charger back to the manufacturer, so I was very glad I went the plug-in route.

The other bit of advice I'd offer is that if you are having your service out to the garage upgraded to 40A and its going to involve digging a path and adding new wires, you might consider having them run an additional set of 40A wires, even if you don't have a use for them right now. They might come in handy when that second electric car shows up, or if you want to put up some PV panels.

Plus, no Jaguar owner ever has said, "I wish I had less power in my garage." ;)
😸 ⚡ 2019 I-Pace HSE EV400 / Silicon Silver, Black / Siena Tan, Ebony, Oyster / 20" 5068's
🇺🇸 ✋ Detroit Michigan


Timbo
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Location: Staffordshire UK

Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by Timbo » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:43 pm

I don’t intend to advise you but just share my experience.
I had my I Pace at the end of June [19] I do about the same mileage as you. I am retired so often the car is at home all day and night.
Initially I used the granny cable. It worked OK but if you have 2 trips on consecutive days it’s not a long term solution.
I had an electrician do the initial preparation. I didn’t need an earth spike as the unit was to be fitted inside the garage.
Yours will need one if outside.
After great deliberation I went for a BP Chargemaster tethered unit. The latest units are “smart” in that you can time charges making use of cheap rates if you have them. You can also see the cost, duration and amount of power delivered at each charge.
The unit also has a key lock which switches off the power to prevent unauthorised use. Good for you as it’s outside. I don’t use it as mine is locked in the garage.
I have the standard tethered cable which is about 4.5 metres. I didn’t want to mess around with a plug in cable.
It works well and charges the car easily overnight but often I charge it during the day as I don’t have economy 7. I tend to charge 2 to 3 times a week when the car gets to 50%.
I will always top it up if I’m going on a long journey next day.
On the subject of public charging I find Polar (BP) to be most reliable and really easy to use with the RFID card.
As I said no advice. That’s what I did and no regrets.
I Pace HSE, Indus Silver, Black Pack. Pano roof. Oyster/Black. Privacy glass. 22in 5056 Alloys. Air suspension. Delivered 30th June 19.


TeslaDriver
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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by TeslaDriver » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:53 pm

malakai wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:51 pm
In the US, you can have your electrician install a NEMA 14-50R type outlet on the wall of the garage, on its own breaker. That's the same outlet put into new construction for electric clothes dryers, and is also used at a lot of RV parks. Then you can buy a wall mounted charger that plugs into the outlet, instead of one that needs to be hard wired into the circuit.
USA electrics is different. I'm no electrician ... but my understand of USA Electrics is that you have 2 phases, 120V each; the general circuits around the house are 120V but you can then have a combination of the 2 Phases for a 240V socket (for driers etc.)

In much of the EU it is common to have Domestic 3-Phase 240V supply ... but not in UK where 3-Phase is typically only available for industry. UK Domestic is typically single phase 240V. We have multiple ring-main loops around the house (using a 24/32 AMP cable with multiple 13AMP sockets suitable to plug anything into, up to 3kW each). Benefit of this is that the loop of ring-main runs around a room, or several rooms, and if you want another socket you can just add one into the loop (there is a limit!). Each plug has its own fuse (although 13AMP is the max, individual devices are likely to have a much smaller fuse) so individual devices are individually protected

Image

Anything with a bigger power requirement is wired radially from the distribution board - I presume that is like your drier circuit. So cooker, hot water immersion , electric shower, Car Charger etc. would be specific individual e.g. 7kW circuits

So we can just plug the car into any 13AMP socket to get 5-ish MPH charging, handy when visiting friends :), or install a dedicated 7kW "wall charger"for 22-ish MPH.

The UK equivalent (I think?) of your "RV Socket" is Commando socket. That is a simple Plug/Socket, with a different shape to the 13AMP plugs, and typically a waterproof connection and often the Switch "interlocks" the plug into the socket when ON. The sockets are cheap and cheerful , but the cheap ones are not very robust - they tend to flex when you try to get the plug back out ... fine for occasional use, or more robust ones available for regular use. So for long EV-charging term use a Wallcharger is generally preferable.

Image
Commando Socket / Plug (sorry, I now see this image is not a good example as domestic ones are 3-pin, not 5-pin, but look similar)


badgb21
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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by badgb21 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:10 pm

Thank you for all the replies so far, some of the fog is slowly clearing!

This is what I am mentally planing right now;
My workmen with do the power and path bits.
Electrician has already surveyed and said we need an earth point.
He said 40 amps would be fine, not sure on the max current of the wiring etc. though, so maybe more.
(That’s 9.2kW, we only run a fridge and some lights in there as well, so I’m guessing plenty for 7.5kW charger?)

Tethered Wall box installed by OLEV approved installer.
Electrician said he fits commercial ones, working with an approved company, but thought it would be advantageous to get the OLEV grant, as I will only need their ‘standard’ fitting.

I agree on the running costs of £450 to £490/yr depending on the rate we can get.
(I currently spend £1275/yr on diesel, like for like miles – VW Tiguan)

Still not sure which wall box, Podpoint (is it smart?) or the BP one, et al!
Goshdarnit – the lights are putting me off the Pulsar but it sounds ideal otherwise, (thanks for the vid by the way).
I won’t be relying on the granny charger, the wall box needs to be ready before it arrives.

I’m practically retired and the golf course is only 5 miles away! Charging there might be handy occasionally, I’ll suggest it at the next AGM. Hence no ‘work’ charger available.
We can park our cars on the driveway side by side (trunk in or out) so I’m sure we can get a combo that’ll reach the cable. We have plenty of time to charge (my wife works from home and travel abroad a lot), so one feed will be sufficient.
Not getting into Solar, we’ll move house before any kind of pay back.

So I now have a couple of other questions:

Electricity supplier: our deal ends soon. I have been on the comparison sites etc and used our projected electricity consumption. I only get flat rates (we only have a basic meter, not eco 7 or whatever they call it now). I like the thought of charging it when it suits me, with a flat rate and not getting bogged down with the timer issues of car and box (which sounds like it needs some work from JLR). Am I missing out on anything?


Public Charging – Who to sign up with?
I will only do minimal public charges and prefer Pay as you go plans.
I don’t think I want to pay a monthly charge if at all possible.
Any suggestions?

Once again, thank you to all, I hope this helps others too.


davidp40
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Location: UK

Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by davidp40 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:30 pm

All seems sensible. A couple of points/answers:

Ask your electrician to carefully justify the choice of a 40A supply to the garage CU. He/she may have good reasons that aren't obvious to me. The problem I see is that if your charger is drawing 30A, you can't then have a 13A socket which can deliver full load without tripping the MCB - indeed the socket circuit must not be rated at more than 10A. You may say that you don't wish to plug things in that draw more than 10A (e.g. a granny charger for a second EV), but to have a 13A socket which cannot do what it says on the tin, while not unsafe, is equally not usually considered good practice, and might be flagged up as a deficiency by a house purchaser or their surveyor in future.

On the electricity supplier front, it's fair enough to not worry about it too much. On the other hand if you're paying 13-16p/unit with a flat tariff, and could halve that, you could save hundreds of pounds a year. Agreed that having to arrange to charge your car in the middle of the night is a faff, however there are less demanding tariffs out there - e.g. EDF Go Electric which reduces from 13p to 8p after 9pm. You do need a smart meter, but they just come along and fit it.

Public charging is a thorny topic. Have a look at Plugshare or Zap-Map and look what CCS rapid chargers are on key routes that you might use, perhaps 100 -150 miles away which is where you will need them (I'm in the Midlands, so I'm getting to know where I can reliably rapid charge around Bristol, Manchester, London, Sheffield). You're unlikely to use chargers near your house. Instavolt chargers are very reliable and accept contactless card payments. Ecotricity only seem to work at all for a minority, and you need their app on your phone. Polar (also known as BP Chargemaster) is another ubiquitous one where you need an app (Polar Instant), but don't have to pay monthly unless you want a discount. I'm registered with about 6 other networks - different parts of the country tend to have local suppliers as well as the national networks, and if you want to use them, you have to sign up. But I mainly just use Instavolt as I find that when I'm actually a long way from home, reliability trumps all other considerations.

HTH
SE, Corris Grey, Pan roof, 20" diamond cut, delivered April 2019. Warwickshire.


Sandman
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Location: Essex

Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by Sandman » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:16 pm

Great info guys. I’m just sitting here reading, but this is exactly the sort of info I need too...very grateful to all for taking the time to reply.
2018 iPace 1st Edition Corris Grey


TeslaDriver
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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by TeslaDriver » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:00 am

badgb21 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:10 pm
Electricity supplier: our deal ends soon. I have been on the comparison sites etc and used our projected electricity consumption.
Worth choosing a Green supplier, assuming like-for-like prices - puts pressure on the non green suppliers to do more. Some have incentives - Octopus (I think?) has a £50 handout for both parties, probably others do too
(we only have a basic meter, not eco 7 or whatever they call it now).
I am sure you know this but if you want a tariff that needs a smart meter then the supplier will do this, no extra charge for you etc.
I like the thought of charging it when it suits me
I hear you ... but rather than charging infrequently, i.e. in the style of ICE where you fill up once-a-week/when low, you could just plug in (ABC = Always Be Charging) overnight and let the scheduler top up if needed.

But I'm a high mileage driver, so not really got my head around if I only drove a couple of dozen miles a day, but as an EV driver "always leave home with max range" is very nice to have.

Other thoughts:

Plugshare and ZapMap for details of public chargers - including Comments from users as to whether charge was successful (need to check both APPs as folk will have commented on one or the other)

Longer trip planning: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/


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NightFox
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Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by NightFox » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:46 am

There's a misconception that chargers now require earthing rods. They don't. Earth rods are just one way of complying with the latest requirements, but are only required if the charger doesn't have an inbuilt ability to detect an electrical fault and disconnect the supply. There are several smart chargers (including the zappi 2) that do this, so don't require an earth rod.

As regards being able to lock the charger to prevent unauthorized use - this often seems to be a "must have" for people when considering a charger, but I'm not convinced it's as big an issue as people tend to think. Who's going to park and plug-in their EV (presumably registered to them) on someone else's drive for all the world to see for 4 or 5 hours with their fingers crossed that no one will notice them, taking an extremely high (almost certain) risk of getting caught and prosecuted for theft, for the sake of maybe £5 worth of electricity?


davidp40
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Location: UK

Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by davidp40 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:39 am

Earth rods not needed?

Some chargers now include PEN monitoring devices which means the manufacturers claim they don't require an external earth reference which an earth-rod provides. However, the latest IET regs on which BS7671 relies still mandate the earthing rod according to most professional interpretations. So you have the situation where manufacturers are happy to assert that their devices are safe without earth rods, but they may still not conform with the 18th edition wiring regs. The added spice here is that whatever the manufacturers say, a registered electrician is legally bound to follow the regs, and so is placed in a tricky situation. There's more in-depth discussion by electricians and electrical engineers here: https://www.speakev.com/threads/new-zap ... rod.134198

TLDR for the end-user: probably OK if you get an installation certificate from an electrician, as any non-compliance then becomes his/her problem. Even though the manufacturers don't say how their earth-rod-avoiding devices work, I think we can assume they are safe, so it's just a matter of compliance. Best case this becomes established practice and is incorporated in BS7671. Worst case there is a test case that goes against, or the next edition of the wiring regs confirms the current edition's suggestion that it's not acceptable.
SE, Corris Grey, Pan roof, 20" diamond cut, delivered April 2019. Warwickshire.


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malakai
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Re: Home Charging in UK

Post by malakai » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:14 pm

TeslaDriver wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:53 pm
USA electrics is different. I'm no electrician ... but my understand of USA Electrics is that you have 2 phases, 120V each; the general circuits around the house are 120V but you can then have a combination of the 2 Phases for a 240V socket (for driers etc.)

In much of the EU it is common to have Domestic 3-Phase 240V supply ... but not in UK where 3-Phase is typically only available for industry. UK Domestic is typically single phase 240V.
Cool. Thanks for the primer on the differences! So do you have the option in the UK to get your residential smart chargers as either a plug-in or a hardwired installation like we do in the US and Canada?

Note to future I-Pace owners... getting a home charger installed may look very complex at the start, especially with all of this information available, but its really not. There's a lot of little details you can fuss over if you want to, but at the end of the day, its all pretty much standardized.
😸 ⚡ 2019 I-Pace HSE EV400 / Silicon Silver, Black / Siena Tan, Ebony, Oyster / 20" 5068's
🇺🇸 ✋ Detroit Michigan


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