Changing the Charge Limit

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sjur
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: Norge

Changing the Charge Limit

Post by sjur » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:45 am

The I-Pace has a 90kw battery. Still it will not charge more than just above 80kw. The reason for this is, supposedly, that fully charging the battery isn't healthy and will shorten the life of the battery.
This is true, but why on earth shorten the maximum range of the car by limiting the charging? Why not do like Tesla and let the owner decide through a parameter where the charging should stop on day-to-day charging. Normally, i would set the maxumum charging parameter on my Tesla (not mine anymore) to stop charging at 80%, and then turn that up to 100% before going on trips where I would need the full battery capacity, and back again after the trip.
Should be easy for Jaguar to implement this,
THis article shines a light on this problem:
https://qz.com/1446315/jaguar-i-pace-is ... ake-sense/

I would VERY MUCH like an answer from JLR on this.


Baikar
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:49 am
Location: Uk

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by Baikar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:26 am

sjur wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:45 am
The I-Pace has a 90kw battery. Still it will not charge more than just above 80kw. The reason for this is, supposedly, that fully charging the battery isn't healthy and will shorten the life of the battery.
This is true, but why on earth shorten the maximum range of the car by limiting the charging? Why not do like Tesla and let the owner decide through a parameter where the charging should stop on day-to-day charging. Normally, i would set the maxumum charging parameter on my Tesla (not mine anymore) to stop charging at 80%, and then turn that up to 100% before going on trips where I would need the full battery capacity, and back again after the trip.
Should be easy for Jaguar to implement this,
THis article shines a light on this problem:
https://qz.com/1446315/jaguar-i-pace-is ... ake-sense/

I would VERY MUCH like an answer from JLR on this.
I’m not sure you are correct. When the car is fully charged its charged to 90kwh. After that if range comes from 80kwh then the software is holding back the remaining 10kwh.


sjur
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: Norge

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by sjur » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:15 pm

THink not. It says 90, but won't let you use more then a little over 80, which (with the conclusions form the article I linked in mind,) leads me to believe that it actually does not fill up the battery - it just says so.


Chewy
Posts: 809
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
Location: UK

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by Chewy » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:39 pm

sjur wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:15 pm
THink not. It says 90, but won't let you use more then a little over 80, which (with the conclusions form the article I linked in mind,) leads me to believe that it actually does not fill up the battery - it just says so.
The I-Pace does not have a 90kW battery.

The I-Pace has a battery with a capacity for energy storage defined as 90kWh. The i-Pace BMS controls the charging rate that the battery receives, the maximum charge level being 100kW. Due to confusion over the CCS specifications, this is currently limited to around 82kW (Chargers appearing to be limited to 200A) but is not a hardware limitation of the I-Pace, just needs sorting out at Jaguar and possibly at charge suppliers.

In common with all EVs, the battery is never charged to its full capacity, nor is it ever reduced to completely empty.

The range 0% to 100% is decided upon by the scientists at Jaguar that provides the best use of the available battery capacity without causing harm to the battery.

Jaguar has stated that 84.7kWh of the battery capacity is used, this will cover the stated 0% to 100%. It is noticed by myself and others that the actual useable capacity appears to be closer to 82kWh, though this is based on information gleaned from info provided by the car on mileage rates over long distances.

Just for your information, the 90kWh batteries in Tesla Model S and Model X have around 80kWh of useable range. Also, Tesla has now decided to stop quoting battery capacity, instead selling their EVs as “Standard Range” and “Long Range” versions.

Also of note, when the battery indicator shows 0% there is a small amount of usable capacity in the battery in case of emergency. However, you should never regularly use the battery in this region, and never leave it in that state for more than a few hours.

The battery level indicator is not that different to the fuel level indicator in your car. When your level indicator says it is full you can always squeeze in some more fuel and it always takes a while for the indicator to start falling if starting from a full tank. I think there are a lot of people that have driven with the fuel indicator telling them the tank is empty. In the UK, around 750,000 run out of fuel every year. I suggest as a percentage, EV drivers do this very infrequently due to the accuracy of the battery level indicators.
Caesium Blue S. 250mi range on 18” wheels in the Winter. Hoping for 300 miles range when it warms up. S19A-07, 15.2


sjur
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: Norge

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by sjur » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:39 pm

True.
However, the technical specifications delivered with the car clearly states ; Battery (kW) : 90
(And when JLR say that they have programmed the car to never top up the battery to 100% because that would be bad for the battery in the long run, I say that they should make it possible to override that setting manually when needed. If, for some reason, it is impossible to draw 90 kw from the battery, the car cannot deliver what they promise and they are guilty of false advertisement.)


Chewy
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
Location: UK

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by Chewy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:35 am

sjur wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:39 pm
True.
However, the technical specifications delivered with the car clearly states ; Battery (kW) : 90
(And when JLR say that they have programmed the car to never top up the battery to 100% because that would be bad for the battery in the long run, I say that they should make it possible to override that setting manually when needed. If, for some reason, it is impossible to draw 90 kw from the battery, the car cannot deliver what they promise and they are guilty of false advertisement.)
The battery capacity is in units of kWh not kW. If the battery could only deliver 90kW we would all be complaining bitterly - it does have two 150kW motors, delivering 400PS of power.

The “battery” is not a single entity, it is collection of battery cells joined together to provide a large capacity. To the best of my knowledge there is no BMS that could be used to successfully balance charging to each battery cell to allow a full 100% charge within any reasonable time frame. Overcharging a battery will lead to heating and....... BANG !!! This is not unique to Jaguar, all EV manufacturers face the same issue. It is not bad for a single cell to charge it to near full capacity, it’s just too time consuming to do that from a single power supply across hundreds of cells.

Possibly you might have an argument about false advertising, but it would be a difficult one to win.

The battery will have a capacity of 90kWh, but I don’t see any document from Jaguar that states that the BMS will utilise the full capacity of the battery.

They state a distance that the car will cover if driving a standardised test cycle, but that is about it.

Anyway, I don’t know why I am defending Jaguar when they won’t update the software in my I-Pace without me paying for it.
Caesium Blue S. 250mi range on 18” wheels in the Winter. Hoping for 300 miles range when it warms up. S19A-07, 15.2


sjur
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: Norge

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by sjur » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:54 pm

Chewy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:35 am
sjur wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:39 pm
True.
However, the technical specifications delivered with the car clearly states ; Battery (kW) : 90
(And when JLR say that they have programmed the car to never top up the battery to 100% because that would be bad for the battery in the long run, I say that they should make it possible to override that setting manually when needed. If, for some reason, it is impossible to draw 90 kw from the battery, the car cannot deliver what they promise and they are guilty of false advertisement.)
The battery capacity is in units of kWh not kW. If the battery could only deliver 90kW we would all be complaining bitterly - it does have two 150kW motors, delivering 400PS of power.

The “battery” is not a single entity, it is collection of battery cells joined together to provide a large capacity. To the best of my knowledge there is no BMS that could be used to successfully balance charging to each battery cell to allow a full 100% charge within any reasonable time frame. Overcharging a battery will lead to heating and....... BANG !!! This is not unique to Jaguar, all EV manufacturers face the same issue. It is not bad for a single cell to charge it to near full capacity, it’s just too time consuming to do that from a single power supply across hundreds of cells.

Possibly you might have an argument about false advertising, but it would be a difficult one to win.

The battery will have a capacity of 90kWh, but I don’t see any document from Jaguar that states that the BMS will utilise the full capacity of the battery.

They state a distance that the car will cover if driving a standardised test cycle, but that is about it.

Anyway, I don’t know why I am defending Jaguar when they won’t update the software in my I-Pace without me paying for it.
At least you've got your I-Pace ;-)
I've used up a lifetime of patience on the I-Pace. I signed the purchase order i april, was promised delivery in september. Still no car! It was built two weeks ago, more than 6 months later than suggested. They NEVER volunteer any information - and after n emails and n phone calls, they finally informed me that I can expect delivere friday 22. feb. - after 10 months. The delays have cost me about 2000 euros in toll charges and 3000 miles of petrol, since I sold my Tesla in june - expecting my I-Pace primo september. Any more delays and it will get ugly here......


Chewy
Posts: 809
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
Location: UK

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by Chewy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:09 pm

sjur wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:54 pm

At least you've got your I-Pace ;-)
I've used up a lifetime of patience on the I-Pace. I signed the purchase order i april, was promised delivery in september. Still no car! It was built two weeks ago, more than 6 months later than suggested. They NEVER volunteer any information - and after n emails and n phone calls, they finally informed me that I can expect delivere friday 22. feb. - after 10 months. The delays have cost me about 2000 euros in toll charges and 3000 miles of petrol, since I sold my Tesla in june - expecting my I-Pace primo september. Any more delays and it will get ugly here......
As I get older I find my patience is not what it used to be. I had to wait a lot less time for mine and even then I got annoyed.

You will get a car that will bring a smile to your face. Hopefully a lot of the software issues reported will be sorted by the time your car arrives.
Caesium Blue S. 250mi range on 18” wheels in the Winter. Hoping for 300 miles range when it warms up. S19A-07, 15.2


sjur
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:42 pm
Location: Norge

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by sjur » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:46 am

Chewy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:09 pm
sjur wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:54 pm

At least you've got your I-Pace ;-)
I've used up a lifetime of patience on the I-Pace. I signed the purchase order i april, was promised delivery in september. Still no car! It was built two weeks ago, more than 6 months later than suggested. They NEVER volunteer any information - and after n emails and n phone calls, they finally informed me that I can expect delivere friday 22. feb. - after 10 months. The delays have cost me about 2000 euros in toll charges and 3000 miles of petrol, since I sold my Tesla in june - expecting my I-Pace primo september. Any more delays and it will get ugly here......
As I get older I find my patience is not what it used to be. I had to wait a lot less time for mine and even then I got annoyed.

You will get a car that will bring a smile to your face. Hopefully a lot of the software issues reported will be sorted by the time your car arrives.
Hope so.
One of the things that bugs me, which could easily be fixed, is that they switch off the rear camera when the car hits 15km/h - for "safety reasons". How can it be less safe to use the big screen with a broad view than the tiny center mirror with almost no view? Utter nonsense.


Baikar
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:49 am
Location: Uk

Re: Changing the Charge Limit

Post by Baikar » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:19 am

sjur wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:46 am
Chewy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:09 pm
sjur wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:54 pm

At least you've got your I-Pace ;-)
I've used up a lifetime of patience on the I-Pace. I signed the purchase order i april, was promised delivery in september. Still no car! It was built two weeks ago, more than 6 months later than suggested. They NEVER volunteer any information - and after n emails and n phone calls, they finally informed me that I can expect delivere friday 22. feb. - after 10 months. The delays have cost me about 2000 euros in toll charges and 3000 miles of petrol, since I sold my Tesla in june - expecting my I-Pace primo september. Any more delays and it will get ugly here......
As I get older I find my patience is not what it used to be. I had to wait a lot less time for mine and even then I got annoyed.

You will get a car that will bring a smile to your face. Hopefully a lot of the software issues reported will be sorted by the time your car arrives.
Hope so.
One of the things that bugs me, which could easily be fixed, is that they switch off the rear camera when the car hits 15km/h - for "safety reasons". How can it be less safe to use the big screen with a broad view than the tiny center mirror with almost no view? Utter nonsense.
Well that and the fact that when I purchased my previous Jaguar back in 2016 they let you use the rear view camera at any speed. I guess it must have been safer back in 2016!!!


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