DC 50Kw charging only

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iomagico
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DC 50Kw charging only

Post by iomagico » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:29 pm

I'm managing some changes at work and I'm afraid will charge the i-pace Just by the DC 50Kw charger.
It will be my only way to feed the car and I wonder if this attitude can reduce the battery efficency in the long period.
In any case I plan to use the car only in the 30% to 80% range to avoid balancing problems.
After all, even if we call DC 50Kw as Fast Charging, for a 90Kwh battery this is Just 0.5C and looking at LG Chem cell specifications, this is perfectly fine.
The real problem can be temperature related, but I have chance to monitor It trough the ODB and never go on charging if temperature raise above 35 degrees and same if Delta Voltage raises above 25mV.
Only option I have Is using my 16A charger every 4 weeks when I get home.
Would like to know your opinion about.
Last edited by iomagico on Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jpbates
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Re: DC 50Kw charging only

Post by jpbates » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:20 pm

Jaguar do not worry about 50kw charging affecting battery, they say only charging above this may degrade battery.
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Lobster
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Re: DC 50Kw charging only

Post by Lobster » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:10 am

iomagico, using the I-Pace PCC App to view battery and temperature will show that the battery is not stressed. The 0.5C charge rate is also very conservative. JLR engineers have advised via YouTube videos that regular charging to 100% is OK.

When charging my I-Pace in summer heat over 40 degrees C, the I-Pace will start cooling the battery if required, I can hear loud fan noise. I have read (somewhere?) that charging the battery at 25 - 35 degrees is best as it can easily take >100kW DC charge rate. The I-Pace controls the charge rate from the DC charger. The car automatically reduces the current if it is too high.

You mention PCC App "Delta Voltage raises above 25mV". I also have this PCC App, my Delta Voltage has reduced over 12 months, it is usually 19 or 20mV at 100%.

Does your Delta Voltage vary up or down?

Is your Delta Voltage lower after the battery balances to 100%?

Cheers, Steve
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iomagico
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Re: DC 50Kw charging only

Post by iomagico » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:50 am

Steve, thanks for your reply.
Based on my experience, battery temperature is the key factor, so I monitor it every time I charge.
On my car the battery cooling system kick in at above 30 degrees, so the battery normally stays around 30-35 degrees (temp is critical when outside is over 35 degree and sun is hitting the car).
About delta voltage (cell balancing).
If I AC charge the car, delta is normally under 5 mV but if I DC charge it can raise, specially if I recharge after a long trip with high speed.
This is why I prefer monitor this parameter too and stop charging when it raise above 25 mV.
As rules of thumbs I normally prefer top charging with AC charger, letting cells top balancing with very low current (much lower that allowed from bms).
For this process, infos from PCC are really precious.
The biggest PCC mistake is what they call SOH, which can goes up and down from 85% to 95%.
This variation clearly shows that this parameter is not SOH, which can (by definition) only decrease by cells chemical reactions.
Related SOH error (for PCC software) is that available energy is obtained using this parameter, decreasing the available Kwh.
As result, PCC shows a very big available energy error when battery is full (SOH is a percentage), affecting long trips planning (so you experience positive PCC DELTA even if car stays on the display line) and lower error when you approach the destination (but have no more time to set a correct energy strategy).
Spoke a lot of time with Leonardo, the PCC developer) but he prefers to maintain this scheme (but will not display SOH in the future software version).
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SammyD
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Re: DC 50Kw charging only

Post by SammyD » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:18 pm

Is there anywhere in the UK where you can get the OBD2 Dongle for IOS? Amazon only seem to carry the Android version.
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Maxwell_400
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Re: DC 50Kw charging only

Post by Maxwell_400 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:43 pm

SammyD wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:18 pm
Is there anywhere in the UK where you can get the OBD2 Dongle for IOS? Amazon only seem to carry the Android version.
As far as I know it is the same Bluetooth dongle for IOS and Android, do not see why they should differ. For PCC I use a VLINK dongle, works just fine. (on Android).
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iomagico
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Re: DC 50Kw charging only

Post by iomagico » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:17 am

jpbates wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:20 pm
Jaguar do not worry about 50kw charging affecting battery, they say only charging above this may degrade battery.
Till now, the most complete and detailed feedback from Jaguar about i-pace battery system, came from Stephen Boulter (Live-stream is on youtube platform).
He spoke a lot about temperature related problems and correct managing of the battery system and (minute 49 of that interview) he suggested to not exclusively DC charge because of balancing difficulty during fast charging process (no difference mentioned between 50Kw and higher DC power charging).
From my experience 0.5C (50Kw) or 1C (100Kw) makes a LOT of difference (that’s why 100Kw is still a dream on the i-pace with a so sophisticated thermal battery management) but I would like to hear more about balancing process.
If JLR simply stops to balancing the cells during the DC charging because of the high current, means is very important, from time to time, complete an AC charging to let cells complete correctly the top balancing.

Ps: here the youtube link to that interview, if someone want to watch.
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Maxwell_400
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Re: DC 50Kw charging only

Post by Maxwell_400 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:51 am

iomagico wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:17 am
jpbates wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:20 pm
Jaguar do not worry about 50kw charging affecting battery, they say only charging above this may degrade battery.
Till now, the most complete and detailed feedback from Jaguar about i-pace battery system, came from Stephen Boulter (Live-stream is on youtube platform).
He spoke a lot about temperature related problems and correct managing of the battery system and (minute 49 of that interview) he suggested to not exclusively DC charge because of balancing difficulty during fast charging process (no difference mentioned between 50Kw and higher DC power charging).
From my experience 0.5C (50Kw) or 1C (100Kw) makes a LOT of difference (that’s why 100Kw is still a dream on the i-pace with a so sophisticated thermal battery management) but I would like to hear more about balancing process.
If JLR simply stops to balancing the cells during the DC charging because of the high current, means is very important, from time to time, complete an AC charging to let cells complete correctly the top balancing.

Ps: here the youtube link to that interview, if someone want to watch.
I have no detailed knowledge about Jaguars self balancing but I have worked with battery management systems and lithium batteries in a previous job. Very simplified: When you discharge, the battery pack will self balance, the best cells will have the highest voltage and deliver more power (P=U*I). However when you charge the pack the weak cells will quickly reach a higher voltage and some current must be diverted and not enter the cell, this can be done by connecting a balancing resistor across the cell. However this has limited capacity and will not work if the charge current is too high.
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, 20C, TCU 19.2, BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

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