A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

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GoneNuts

Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by GoneNuts » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:50 pm

kermit68 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:16 pm
JLR informed me that the questions I've asked will not be answered. It seems there is a matter of know how disclosure or at least least this is what I understood.
I've never heard of a manufacturer not explaining how basic equipment works. A rival will simply buy a car and tear it apart. Owners need to understand the new technology and there's nothing secret about heating/cooling EVs. There are certainly minor differences between manufacturers but I can't image Tesla, BMW, etc. being overly interested in a JLR climate control system.

kermit68
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by kermit68 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:40 pm

GoneNuts wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:50 pm
kermit68 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:16 pm
JLR informed me that the questions I've asked will not be answered. It seems there is a matter of know how disclosure or at least least this is what I understood.
I've never heard of a manufacturer not explaining how basic equipment works. A rival will simply buy a car and tear it apart. Owners need to understand the new technology and there's nothing secret about heating/cooling EVs. There are certainly minor differences between manufacturers but I can't image Tesla, BMW, etc. being overly interested in a JLR climate control system.
I preferred not to comment, but I agree 100% with your words. Not answering a question like "is it possible to vent the cabin without messing around with temperature" beats me but I don't want to waste more time on this.
MY20 Yulong White SE, 20", air suspension, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs

kinemax
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by kinemax » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:05 am

Maybe Jaguar has revolutionary A/C-heat pump unit and don't want to attract competition attention ?!?

Just joking but answer of the type "we don't know at the moment, but even when we know we don't tell" is not nice...

Dan, could you and whole Jaguar CRC team understand that many customers for I-Pace are completely different type than "normal" Jaguar customers ?
We don't want to drive "black box", we want to know more, to optimise our using of this superb car not only in terms of speed and luxury, but also "econology", so answer to optimal using of A/C and whether A/C shall be used in winter for energy saving is really important for us...

CRC@Jaguar
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by CRC@Jaguar » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:01 am

kinemax wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:05 am
Maybe Jaguar has revolutionary A/C-heat pump unit and don't want to attract competition attention ?!?

Just joking but answer of the type "we don't know at the moment, but even when we know we don't tell" is not nice...

Dan, could you and whole Jaguar CRC team understand that many customers for I-Pace are completely different type than "normal" Jaguar customers ?
We don't want to drive "black box", we want to know more, to optimise our using of this superb car not only in terms of speed and luxury, but also "econology", so answer to optimal using of A/C and whether A/C shall be used in winter for energy saving is really important for us...
Good Morning Kinemax,

Thank you for your post.

I can confirm that Jaguar Land Rover as a manufacturer does understand the expectations of I-PACE customers, and we endeavour to circulate the latest information available to us across the forum, when it is requested.

In regards to your concern, I have escalated the query within both our Technical and Engineering teams. Unfortunately, the information you require isn't yet available to share without the adequate tests being undertaken first. Whether this information will become available in the future, I am not in a position to say at this time.

I am sorry that I am unable to assist you, should you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

Many Thanks

Dan - Jaguar UK

scm
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by scm » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:58 am

CRC@Jaguar wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:01 am
I can confirm that Jaguar Land Rover as a manufacturer does understand the expectations of I-PACE customers, and we endeavour to circulate the latest information available to us across the forum, when it is requested.
The snag with that approach is that we have to know that latest information is available in order to ask for it. If you don't tell us, how do we know to ask? A little more proactivity might be appreciated. ;)

Delta5
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by Delta5 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:28 pm

I’ve just looked at the online IPace manual and it states that Aircon (heating and cooling) can be selected independently of other functions, there is also a max aircon setting or just use ambient air to ventilate the cabin, saving energy.
As owners we can learn a lot about the operating principles of the IPace on this forum and with the help of apps like wattcat understand problems, what we cannot do is understand the interconnecting parameters that come into play with every change in setting we might make.
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

Maxwell_400
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by Maxwell_400 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:12 am

I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, H264, H280, TCU 18.2, BECM: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

Delta5
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by Delta5 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:47 pm

Good explanation in the link
Taking it one step further, raising the battery temperature will increase its capacity and therefore range.
Using the Jaguar range calculator raising the temperature from 5 to 20C will give an extra 24 miles range
At an efficiency of 3ml/kwh that’s 8kwh. With heat pump efficiency it should easily achieve a gain in range.

However, in the range calculator it shows a loss of range with aircon on, so maybe the gain is only until the battery reaches working temperature. It also show a loss of 30 mile loss of range at low speed but only 7 mile loss at high speed when the aircon is using battery discharge and motor heat to warm the cabin
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

Maxwell_400
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by Maxwell_400 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:28 am

Delta5 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:47 pm
Good explanation in the link
Taking it one step further, raising the battery temperature will increase its capacity and therefore range.
Using the Jaguar range calculator raising the temperature from 5 to 20C will give an extra 24 miles range
At an efficiency of 3ml/kwh that’s 8kwh. With heat pump efficiency it should easily achieve a gain in range.

However, in the range calculator it shows a loss of range with aircon on, so maybe the gain is only until the battery reaches working temperature. It also show a loss of 30 mile loss of range at low speed but only 7 mile loss at high speed when the aircon is using battery discharge and motor heat to warm the cabin
I don't think AC do anything until you try to cool the cabin, I see no difference on range with AC on/off at low ambient temperatures but I see that GOM range and range impact information give conflicting results.
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, H264, H280, TCU 18.2, BECM: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

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LowOnCash
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Re: A/C and heat pump - is it one unit ?

Post by LowOnCash » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:57 am

GoneNuts wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:50 pm
kermit68 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:16 pm
JLR informed me that the questions I've asked will not be answered. It seems there is a matter of know how disclosure or at least least this is what I understood.
I've never heard of a manufacturer not explaining how basic equipment works. A rival will simply buy a car and tear it apart. Owners need to understand the new technology and there's nothing secret about heating/cooling EVs. There are certainly minor differences between manufacturers but I can't image Tesla, BMW, etc. being overly interested in a JLR climate control system.
GoneNuts I love your analogy and explanation of the secrecy of the IPace heating and cooling system! LOL

Here's what I'm Guessing - Since I can hear the compressor start and work as it gets head pressure, we know the I Pace uses a heat pump somewhat like the Bev model of the BMW I3 to heat the cabin and maybe the battery. We don't know if the battery gets any heat during normal use of the heater when driving. Also, there may be an emergency element heater on the battery (like the GM Volt) for extreme weather since the heat pump can be limited at very low temperatures.

What would really be helpful to know is how the heat pump is shared with the battery temperature management. When the owner fires up the heat, does the cabin have priority over the battery or is the cabin and battery operate on the same coolant circuit. Another option would be the processor monitors the cabin temperature and after it reaches the requested temp, it opens a coolant valve to share the heat with the battery. What we do know is the cabin and the battery must be controlled separately because when setting a departure, it heats the battery first, then the cabin.
Another option for departure is; the cabin and battery are on the same circuit, then 30 minutes before departure, it might just turn on the cabin fan to begin warming the car. In any case, we need a good spy in the factory to get us some images or better yet, one of the automotive Universities to tear down one of these pups so we could all learn more about how our car really works.

Mike

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