Traction Battery temperatures

Faults and Technical chat for the Jaguar I-Pace
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ianipace
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Location: Cardiff, UK

Traction Battery temperatures

Post by ianipace » Sun May 02, 2021 7:51 pm

Who out there knows what the ideal battery temperature should be, for both fast charging and probably more importantly, maximum range?

I've looked at the Power Cruise Control app (Android only) which gets the data from the car via the OBD2 port. This data is far more comprehensive than the API sent to the server. I can see that my battery hardly ever gets hotter than 16ºC when driving!
That was on a 90 mile trip to west Wales, motorway (70 mph) and dual carriage A roads, a mix of 50, 60 and 70 mph.
Surely the battery temperature should rise as you take current?
I started with temperature at 10ºC which rose to 15ºC then stayed there.
Eventually it did get to 16ºC but no hotter.
I stopped at an Instavolt 50Kw charge point and the temperature did go up to a heady 19ºC when charging, but no higher.

Now I thought the ideal working battery temperature was 22 - 24ºC. If that is the case how much more range could I get if the battery temperature was at 24ºC and not at 16ºC?

Stay safe

Ian
MY2019 SE in Caesium Blue. Panoramic roof and Gloss Black 18" wheels. Ohme Smart charger.

Maxwell_400
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:09 am
Location: Norway

Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by Maxwell_400 » Sun May 02, 2021 8:17 pm

ianipace wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:51 pm
Who out there knows what the ideal battery temperature should be, for both fast charging and probably more importantly, maximum range?

Now I thought the ideal working battery temperature was 22 - 24ºC. If that is the case how much more range could I get if the battery temperature was at 24ºC and not at 16ºC?

Stay safe

Ian
Let google be your friend, https://www.evcreate.nl/ideal-battery-temperature/

It is very hard to warm the battery by normal driving, the internal resistance in the battery is too low. I doubt you will see any range increase from 16 to 24, other factors will impact range more. And the only way to heat battery while charging is to turn off the climate or the car.
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, 20C, TCU 19.2, BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

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ianipace
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Location: Cardiff, UK

Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by ianipace » Sun May 02, 2021 10:32 pm

Hi Maxwell_400

Thanks for the link.
That website reinforces my belief that the 'ideal' battery temperature is 25ºC.
15ºC would appear to be the lowest temperature that doesn't impact on power delivery.
Do we think the JLR are running the batteries conservatively to appease LG?

The reason I ask is the Bjorn Nyland of YouTube fame, constantly is showing higher battery temperatures on the cars he tests, most notably his Tesla S and Model 3.

I see 19ºC regularly often 22ºC, so why is my I-Pace so much cooler?
Is it normal, and all I-Paces running their batteries that cold?
Incidentally we know that cold batteries (5 - 10ºC) do not deliver the range that you get when they are warm.

Stay safe

Ian
MY2019 SE in Caesium Blue. Panoramic roof and Gloss Black 18" wheels. Ohme Smart charger.

Maxwell_400
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:09 am
Location: Norway

Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by Maxwell_400 » Mon May 03, 2021 8:18 am

ianipace wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:32 pm
Hi Maxwell_400

Thanks for the link.
That website reinforces my belief that the 'ideal' battery temperature is 25ºC.
15ºC would appear to be the lowest temperature that doesn't impact on power delivery.
Do we think the JLR are running the batteries conservatively to appease LG?

The reason I ask is the Bjorn Nyland of YouTube fame, constantly is showing higher battery temperatures on the cars he tests, most notably his Tesla S and Model 3.

I see 19ºC regularly often 22ºC, so why is my I-Pace so much cooler?
Is it normal, and all I-Paces running their batteries that cold?
Incidentally we know that cold batteries (5 - 10ºC) do not deliver the range that you get when they are warm.

Stay safe

Ian
The Teslas prewarm the batteries when you set your destination to a charger. As far as I know no EVs warmes the batteries actively while driving.

I long for button to warm the battery and since the I-Pace cannot heat the cabin and the battery at the same time it must be time multiplexed.

Maybe like this:

Battery heating enabled.
fan at zero - maximum heating of battery
fan at one - 75% battery, 25% cabin
fan at two - 50% battery, 50% cabin
fan at three - 25% battery, 75% cabin
fan at more than three, cabin only

if cabin has reached the set temperature, the battery is heated 100%

If battery heating is not enabled, normal operation.

It takes about 0.5 -1 hours to heat the battery 20 degrees. (? No proof, just a feeling when I have preconditioned the car)
I-Pace SE++, MY20, 18" summer & winter, no panoroof, towbar, spare wheel, 20C, TCU 19.2, BECS: BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE

ghost
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Location: Norway

Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by ghost » Mon May 03, 2021 9:50 am

I got the Power Cruise Control app and OBD reader a while a ago and can confirm that the battery temperature will not raise much above ambient temperature unless you drive very hard. A way to initiate battery heater before arriving at a fast charger during winter time would be extremely useful. Only way today to heat the battery is to preform repeated hard acceleration and deceleration.

kermit68
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Location: Rome / Italy

Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by kermit68 » Mon May 03, 2021 11:32 am

It's all about ambient temperature: in summer in Italy I have the opposite problem as I can get easily the battery to 35°C while driving. That is a problen when you want to fast charge because the battery gets quiclky to 40°C so that the heat pump kicks in to cool down the battery hence adsorbing some on the energy coming from the charger and decrasing the charging speed.
As usual in mid seasons everything gets better, but winter and summer have their own problems with battary temperatures.
MY21 Yulong White SE, 20", head-up display, air susp, matrix lights, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs
MY20 SE - gone

dernotte
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Location: Montreal, QC, Canada

Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by dernotte » Mon May 03, 2021 7:00 pm

Here is an old graph I took this winter.
I drove at 100km/h (not enough to stress the car, but we are not allowed to drive faster here) during an hour (from 6am to 7am), and you can see that the battery temp only raised up by a couple of degrees during that timeframe. Then at 7am, I started to do some yo-yo (acceleration and deceleration), as you can see on the yellow line (speed of the car). In 10 min, I was able to raise the battery temp from 2-3 degc to almost 20degc, even if the ambient temp was -7c.

Capture d%u2019écran, le 2021-03-13 à 07.54.15.png

Last edited by dernotte on Mon May 03, 2021 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ianipace
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Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by ianipace » Mon May 03, 2021 7:25 pm

Thanks guys, this is very interesting.
Do you think that the range improves/reduces with temperature? i.e. in Italy, when the ambient temperature goes up, does your range come down? Similarly in Canada, is there a significant change in range from winter to spring?
The reason for this is the I-Pace never achieving the JLR stated range of 290 miles. Given that figure is obtained under laboratory conditions, my 'normal' figure of 225 - 235 max miles is nowhere near that figure!
So I was wondering how much temperature of the battery has a bearing on this lack of range.
Or does temperature only have a bearing on charge speed.

Stay safe

Ian
MY2019 SE in Caesium Blue. Panoramic roof and Gloss Black 18" wheels. Ohme Smart charger.

ghost
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:08 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by ghost » Mon May 03, 2021 7:58 pm

It's not really difficult to replicate the WLTP range number. Remember that WLTP condition is at > 20 degree C and with climate off. Also the WLTP cycle is at very moderate speed. Average speed is around 60 km/h I believe even though the max speed is above 120 km/h. Also we can assume that the measurement is at no wind condition.

If you drive at a constant 90 km/h at WLTP condition you will reach your WLTP range estimate. Very important not to exceed that speed of course.

kermit68
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Rome / Italy

Re: Traction Battery temperatures

Post by kermit68 » Mon May 03, 2021 8:08 pm

ianipace wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 7:25 pm
Thanks guys, this is very interesting.
Do you think that the range improves/reduces with temperature? i.e. in Italy, when the ambient temperature goes up, does your range come down? Similarly in Canada, is there a significant change in range from winter to spring?
The reason for this is the I-Pace never achieving the JLR stated range of 290 miles. Given that figure is obtained under laboratory conditions, my 'normal' figure of 225 - 235 max miles is nowhere near that figure!
So I was wondering how much temperature of the battery has a bearing on this lack of range.
Or does temperature only have a bearing on charge speed.

Stay safe

Ian
The range in summer does not decrease because of battery temperature. On the other hand hot climate means a lot of energy for the A/C so at the end you may loose some range but not as a direct effect of battery temperature.
On my previuos MY20 the GOM at full charge was always between 370 km (230 mi) in mid season/summer to 350 km (218 mi) in winter but consider that "winter" in Rome is very mild (especiually compared to Canada :D ).
The big problem in Italy are the speed limit: I can legally drive @137 km/h (a little more than 85 mph) without getting fined and that has a big impact on real range. And I mean real GPS speed so you have to add 4% at least with 20" wheel (amost 90 mph on the display). Of course Germany can be worse :mrgreen:
Last edited by kermit68 on Tue May 04, 2021 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
MY21 Yulong White SE, 20", head-up display, air susp, matrix lights, privacy glass, black pack and other fine stuffs
MY20 SE - gone

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