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100kW charging: It's a joke

92K views 325 replies 58 participants last post by  kermit68 
#1 ·
After having the car for 1,5 year (with 56000km driven), my conclusion is that the I Pace can not charge at a speed of 100kW. JLR promised is that from 0 to 80% charging will take 40 minutes, which is totally misleading! Yes, the first two minutes will be 100 kW, however, it drops quickly to 80 kW. The bandwidth in which the I Pace can charge at 100 kW is so narrow that in reality this I'll never happen.

Don't get my wrong, I love the car but I hate to be misleading.
 
#102 ·
FENorway said:
You never charge to 90% on a fast charger unless you have an Audi.
If you have a TM3 you charge to maybe 60%,because then it starts tapering.
What makes sense with an EV is to fast charge over an SOC level which gives high power. IMO over 80kw. When it goes below that you stop charging and driver the next station.
I agree it is not fast to fast charge to 90% but I have done it several times sometimes to be able to skip an extra stop and sometimes because I really had to. Certainly in winter if your destination or next charger is 250-275km you will need to charge to 90%.

Some of that is also because I rather be safe than sorry so want to have a safety buffer on top of the planned arrival with 10%. This is even more important after H280 as H280 reduced how far you can drive from 5% SoC to when the car stops.
 
#103 ·
Jelle v/d Meer said:
I agree it is not fast to fast charge to 90% but I have done it several times sometimes to be able to skip an extra stop and sometimes because I really had to. Certainly in winter if your destination or next charger is 250-275km you will need to charge to 90%.

Some of that is also because I rather be safe than sorry so want to have a safety buffer on top of the planned arrival with 10%. This is even more important after H280 as H280 reduced how far you can drive from 5% SoC to when the car stops.
Yes, that is the only realistic way doing it.... except maybe, you live in a country with speed limits below 100km/h.
 
#104 ·
BTW: If you are desperate low in battery but have time to travel, just find a modern (two level) coach on the motorway (they drive 100km/h or so), get close behind in the slipstream, activate cruise control to the shortest distance: You'll get as low as 180Wh/Km or lower and may reach 400 km on a full charge ... it's super boring ... but possible.... You do not need to buy a JAG for this ;-)
 
#105 ·
Tesla Bjorn did a video recently comparing 4 EVs' charging speeds. He charged all 4 to 90% from roughly 10%. The iPace was slower than the model 3 to 90%. It wasn't particularly close from what I remember. I love my car and would never buy a Tesla but I don't think it serves anyone well to misrepresent the facts. The iPace is slower at charging in almost every real world situation than the Model 3. It makes up for this (in my opinion) in many other areas, but I don't think it's reasonable to state that the iPace charges to 90% as quickly as a model 3. Maybe on a 50 kw charger that's true!
 
#106 ·
Jelle v/d Meer said:
Captain.Plummet said:
By my calculations you need to leave with 100% charge and then need two further charges to cover 1000kM. Assuming you stop to charge at 10% capacity you should get 384 kM to the first charge point. Charging there to 80% will provide 300kM of range, but you will need more than 80% at the next charger to reach 1000kM. You therefore need 90% at the first charge point, which takes exactly the same time as a Model 3 for 340kM of range. The only time lost will be at the last charge stop where you would need to wait about twenty minutes longer than the Tesla.
For journeys of around 700kM there is no difference to Tesla and you'll be way quicker than the Etron which would need four charges for the same trip. In every case you'll have slower battery degradation.
New battery tech will bring shorter charge times, but for now we are all in pretty much the same boat. Manufacturers either charge fast to 60-70% and then go slower or charge less quickly for a start but maintain the charge rate for longer. Jaguar have chosen the latter and I agree with their policy.
Not sure which universe you live in or what you have been smoking but above is pure rubbish and false.
Good heavens. I thought you were a reasonable person but that reply was disgraceful. You do not deserve any more of a response than that.
 
#107 ·
Perhaps not the most decent way to say, but I can understand Jelle's point. I just returned from a 5700km holiday trip and I understand his point. You will never drive 380km on one charge and than 300. My experience, after many long trips, is that you drive max 300km on a 100% charge in the summer, in the winter this is 250km max. The fastest way to clock 1000km is to charge your car from 5 to max 60/70%. In this range, the I pace is lacking charging speed.
 
#108 ·
Abu Dhabi Dude said:
Tesla Bjorn did a video recently comparing 4 EVs' charging speeds. He charged all 4 to 90% from roughly 10%. The iPace was slower than the model 3 to 90%. It wasn't particularly close from what I remember. I love my car and would never buy a Tesla but I don't think it serves anyone well to misrepresent the facts. The iPace is slower at charging in almost every real world situation than the Model 3. It makes up for this (in my opinion) in many other areas, but I don't think it's reasonable to state that the iPace charges to 90% as quickly as a model 3. Maybe on a 50 kw charger that's true!
I looked that up on YouTube and it seems to support my comments. If you charge to 90% the I Pace does pretty well charge time/range. I charged alongside an Etron at an IONITY charger earlier this week. The Etron spent 5 minutes less at the charger than I did but the driver said he expected no more than 170 miles from a full charge. That means no more than 150 miles range from en route chargers unless waiting for 90% plus levels of charge, which is longer than the I Pace takes and I get about 215 miles usable from 90% SOC. Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line
 

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#109 ·
If you compare e-tron with I-Pace it's a different story as e-tron charges quickly but then its higher consumption somehow matches the lower charging speed but better efficiency of the I-Pace.

But the Tesla M3, even without a supercharger V3 is another league compared to the I-Pace (and e-tron).
 
#111 ·
Captain.Plummet said:
Abu Dhabi Dude said:
Tesla Bjorn did a video recently comparing 4 EVs' charging speeds. He charged all 4 to 90% from roughly 10%. The iPace was slower than the model 3 to 90%. It wasn't particularly close from what I remember. I love my car and would never buy a Tesla but I don't think it serves anyone well to misrepresent the facts. The iPace is slower at charging in almost every real world situation than the Model 3. It makes up for this (in my opinion) in many other areas, but I don't think it's reasonable to state that the iPace charges to 90% as quickly as a model 3. Maybe on a 50 kw charger that's true!
I looked that up on YouTube and it seems to support my comments. If you charge to 90% the I Pace does pretty well charge time/range. I charged alongside an Etron at an IONITY charger earlier this week. The Etron spent 5 minutes less at the charger than I did but the driver said he expected no more than 170 miles from a full charge. That means no more than 150 miles range from en route chargers unless waiting for 90% plus levels of charge, which is longer than the I Pace takes and I get about 215 miles usable from 90% SOC. 6E8D6D2B-CE07-4F7D-87E8-988A308C34D5.png
Chart shows charging speed (in km range added) for the different levels of SoC %. The higher the faster range is added - as SoC % goes up all cars are showing a reduction in speed.

The chart is not reflection of time - seeing the lines near each other at 90% should be read that when at 90% SoC all cars add adding similar amount of km of range (M3 less kWh than I-pace however M3 can get further on 1 kWh => same km range added).
Getting to 90% is a different story - the model 3 and E-tron 55 are getting to 90% is about half the time it takes the I-pace.
 
#114 ·
The problem with those "tests", you never know what the conditions are : eco-comfort-dynamic mode ? 22"-20"-18" tires ? with or without H264/H280, external temperature, with or without A/C, etc... Are all tests done the same day , on the same road, same temperature, same wind, etc... ?
In summer time, at 70mph, with H264/H280, 20" reasonnable A/C, you can easily have a consumption of 21-22kw/100km, which means you can do almost 400km with a 86kw battery. I don't get that 188miles...
 
#115 ·
I think 21-22 kWh/100 km in constant 70 miles (112 km/h, or 117 kWh/t by instrument) will be a stretch.
I do get less than 20 kWh/100 km when driving at constant 90 km/h, but the consumption increases rapidly from there.
My guess will be 24 kWh/100 km with my HSE on a round-trip with insignificant wind condition in 20+ C outside temperature. This will give you less than 350 km range (still more than 188 miles though).
 
#116 ·
In practice you don't average 70mph to do that you need to cruise at 80 plus. I aim to cruise at 70 pulling in to allow fast traffic past and get 35kw/100ml (20kw/100km.
On a 200ml trip Monday, Started with 245 ml ended with 51 ml , plus 12 kw regen, better than expected. It's not charging speed or range that is a problem to me, it's chargers out of action. Out of 7 rapid chargers close to my destination 5 had issues, of the remaining 2 only one accepted my card, this lottery really must be sorted
 
#117 ·
Captain.Plummet said:
I looked that up on YouTube and it seems to support my comments. If you charge to 90% the I Pace does pretty well charge time/range. I charged alongside an Etron at an IONITY charger earlier this week. The Etron spent 5 minutes less at the charger than I did but the driver said he expected no more than 170 miles from a full charge. That means no more than 150 miles range from en route chargers unless waiting for 90% plus levels of charge, which is longer than the I Pace takes and I get about 215 miles usable from 90% SOC. 6E8D6D2B-CE07-4F7D-87E8-988A308C34D5.png
Your statement was that the Jag could get to 340 km of range as quickly as a Model 3. All the evidence suggests that is not true.
 
#118 ·
ghost said:
Rbrandwijk said:
TCU 19.2 is out!
9F169389-0206-444C-8E6B-EB62330DFB49.jpeg
Did you get 19.2 as a SOTA update or at a delear ?
I have the same question. My I-Pace is on TCU version 18.2, with BECS version BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE. Checking for update says it's up to date but I don't have the 4 squares going around like I do with the infotainment software update checks. This, also with my BCCM having just been replaced at the dealership 3 weeks ago.
 
#119 ·
Abu Dhabi Dude said:
CaptainJAG said:
Bottle neck in the I-Pace might get the battery cooling during charging ... we will see... will be a nice update to get 120kw end of the year for christmas.
The bottle neck in the iPace is actually down to the warranty terms that were negotiated with LGChem. Those have now been renegotiated, allowing JLR to increase charging speed. MY21 will be able to charge at 120 kw peak, and a software update is anticipated to enable the same speed in pre-MY21 models. I have no timetable for that, but it will be after the rollout of TCU 19.2 as that is a pre-requisite for BECM SOTA update.
That's great news! Hopefully will resolve a real blemish on an otherwise outstanding car IMHO. Let's hope the update is before the bad winter weather too.

Best, Rob
 
#120 ·
Wasabi Pea said:
ghost said:
Rbrandwijk said:
TCU 19.2 is out!
9F169389-0206-444C-8E6B-EB62330DFB49.jpeg
Did you get 19.2 as a SOTA update or at a delear ?
I have the same question. My I-Pace is on TCU version 18.2, with BECS version BP-AAE-BC-AC-BE. Checking for update says it's up to date but I don't have the 4 squares going around like I do with the infotainment software update checks. This, also with my BCCM having just been replaced at the dealership 3 weeks ago.
Ditto! Same question was the 19.2 update OTA or visit to dealer?

I'm still on 16.2 but getting OTA updates for Infotainment (recently went to S20B1), so can I assume I'll also get OTA for Telematics?

Best, Rob
 
#124 ·
Abu Dhabi Dude said:
oysteinhermansen said:
That goes for me as well. I am also on 16.2 but gets OTA for infotainment. Will we get OTA for Telematics or do we need to visit the dealer?

/Øystein
Your car should update TCU when it's released without the need for a dealer visit.
That's great news! Thanks Abu Dhabi Dude (btw enjoy the YouTubes too!)

Best, Rob
 
#126 ·
I was reviewing the 2021 I-Pace brochure and found this sentence:

"As the public charging infrastructure improves, I-PACE is equipped to accept up to a 150 kW DC charge rate for improved charge time."

I recall some talk about 120 kW, but this is the first time that I've read anything about 150 kW. I'll be interested to see if this pans out when the MY21 I-PACE start rolling out.
 
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