Jaguar I-Pace Forum banner

Home Charging

138K views 363 replies 85 participants last post by  dcuish 
#1 ·
I've seen many different threads which end up in discussions about home charging and many discussing different solutions for those with a 3 phase wiring system in their home.

As I normally garage my car overnight, I'm seriously considering the radical option of doing nothing i.e. not installing a home charging wall box and just plugging into a normal mains socket. My commute is around 30km per day and with the odd trip here and there, I might go up to 60km. However, I figure that if I can plug in my car for around 10 hours per night (which will be the case most nights), I'll get about 100km charge so will be in credit most days. Even if I'm almost empty after a long journey, as long as I can plug it in overnight, my credit will soon build up where I'll be back to 80% charge again. If I need the charge again more quickly, I could always take it to a DCFC for an hour and I'll be fine.

It'll also save me almost €2,000 to install the wall box. When more info and more options come out to make use of the 3 phases available, I might then think to install one.

I know everyone's case is different and my commute is less than the average persons. but I was wondering if others will consider the same.
 
See less See more
#303 ·
Rene C. said:
Hello Jelle,

I have received my I Pace last Friday, and I have the same inefficient loading on a 22 KW AC charging. (3-4% per hour).
Did you manage to solve the slow charging issue/problem?

Regards,
Rene
So far sadly no - at work (3 phase 32A charger) the charge rate remains low at 3-4% per hour. They just installed my charger with load balancing at home (3 phase 32A charger of which only 1 phase is connected to a 1x 35A connection) - at the moment the App indicates 11% charge per hour (which is more than possible) but so far it has been running between 7-11% despite various appliances drawing power in my house as well.

The more interesting feedback I can give is what I was told yesterday at the Jaguar dealer by 1 of their employees that himself drives the I-pace since the summer and since has done 15,000km. He mentioned (with explanation why) that the I-pace performs VERY poorly on 3 phase chargers to the extend that it will be considerable slower on a 3 phase 32A charger than on a 1 phase 32A charger. Why and how no idea - it makes no sense that the I-pace would be slower on a 3 phase 32A charger than on 1 phase 32A charger but so far my own experience is reflecting that reality.

My guess is that the charging software considers the extra power from 3 phase as a risk and besides not using 2 of the 3 phases lowers the max ampere to protect the charger/battery. Considering that 3 phase barely exist in UK - it could very well be that the Jaguar electrical engineers might have made some mistakes when building the charging hardware/software.

Main issue for all I-pace drivers in NL is that ALL public chargers are 3 phase chargers either 11kW, 22kW or 43kW. For now I am very happy and pleased with my home charger - will continue to monitor over longer periods/days what charge rate I am getting.
 
#304 ·
Jelle v/d Meer said:
The more interesting feedback I can give is what I was told yesterday at the Jaguar dealer by 1 of their employees that himself drives the I-pace since the summer and since has done 15,000km. He mentioned (with explanation why) that the I-pace performs VERY poorly on 3 phase chargers to the extend that it will be considerable slower on a 3 phase 32A charger than on a 1 phase 32A charger. Why and how no idea - it makes no sense that the I-pace would be slower on a 3 phase 32A charger than on 1 phase 32A charger but so far my own experience is reflecting that reality.
I can confirm that I don't have the issues on my 1x24A charger at home. It is charging with 5.5kW as expected. With Allego 3x32A chargers at work, the speed is also above 7kW, which is to be expected. But on other public chargers, I also experienced around 3.5kW on a 22kW public charger.

So the i-pace doesn't seem to like all 22kW chargers. 7kW is already slow, but 3,5kW is horrible and hardly gains any range even if you stay for four hours (50km range added...)...

For Sunday, I have planned for a 400km trip. This will be the first time that I really need a DC charger on the way. My earlier expectations that 400km should be doable without charging are already long gone. So my hope is now at the 100kW charger at Bolscher in Enschede... I hope to get at least 50-60kWh in an hour time. I don't think the couple of hours that I will stay in Enschede would be sufficient to use 22kW public chargers given the current charging issues and I don't want to have a charging break on my way back.
 
#305 ·
Snoerd said:
I can confirm that I don't have the issues on my 1x24A charger at home. It is charging with 5.5kW as expected. With Allego 3x32A chargers at work, the speed is also above 7kW, which is to be expected. But on other public chargers, I also experienced around 3.5kW on a 22kW public charger.

So the i-pace doesn't seem to like all 22kW chargers. 7kW is already slow, but 3,5kW is horrible and hardly gains any range even if you stay for four hours (50km range added...)...

For Sunday, I have planned for a 400km trip. This will be the first time that I really need a DC charger on the way. My earlier expectations that 400km should be doable without charging are already long gone. So my hope is now at the 100kW charger at Bolscher in Enschede... I hope to get at least 50-60kWh in an hour time. I don't think the couple of hours that I will stay in Enschede would be sufficient to use 22kW public chargers given the current charging issues and I don't want to have a charging break on my way back.
I have made multiple longer trips so far and used different DC chargers - the 50kW chargers really perform well and delivery near 50kW per hour up to 80 SoC. The 100kW/175kW chargers so far performed below par and if your SoC is above 55% don't expect to get a lot better speed than from a 50kW charger.

So far the charging sessions on the road where actually not really annoying - when travelling alone I have my laptop (work) and Ipad (Netflix/games) with me. The last trip up and down to Charlerloi I charged on the return and was working away and joined calls and before I knew it the car was charged to 90% from 21% start. Total time was 78 minutes but it didn't feel the time was lost and average charge speed came to 45kW per hour.
 
#306 ·
I've a 32A charger with load balancing (Alfen Eve Mini) installed at home. I've no problems with charging, getting around 8%/9% according to the app. I think most of the home charging issues are also related to the charger and setting at home
 
#308 ·
Jelle v/d Meer said:
Rene C. said:
Hello Jelle,

I have received my I Pace last Friday, and I have the same inefficient loading on a 22 KW AC charging. (3-4% per hour).
Did you manage to solve the slow charging issue/problem?

Regards,
Rene
The more interesting feedback I can give is what I was told yesterday at the Jaguar dealer by 1 of their employees that himself drives the I-pace since the summer and since has done 15,000km. He mentioned (with explanation why) that the I-pace performs VERY poorly on 3 phase chargers to the extend that it will be considerable slower on a 3 phase 32A charger than on a 1 phase 32A charger. Why and how no idea - it makes no sense that the I-pace would be slower on a 3 phase 32A charger than on 1 phase 32A charger but so far my own experience is reflecting that reality.

My guess is that the charging software considers the extra power from 3 phase as a risk and besides not using 2 of the 3 phases lowers the max ampere to protect the charger/battery. Considering that 3 phase barely exist in UK - it could very well be that the Jaguar electrical engineers might have made some mistakes when building the charging hardware/software.

Main issue for all I-pace drivers in NL is that ALL public chargers are 3 phase chargers either 11kW, 22kW or 43kW. For now I am very happy and pleased with my home charger - will continue to monitor over longer periods/days what charge rate I am getting.
Nonsense: there is no risk in being connected to 3-phases versus 1-phase, and the Jaguar engineers did not make any mistake in the AC charging setup. This is why: there is no way the i-Pace hardware or software could detect whether it is connected to 1 or 3 phases. Physically only phase 1 is connected (see the socket in the car inlet: the bottom two holes - those are for phase 2 and phase 3 on three-phase cars - don't have contact bushings at all, so 'sensing' presence of phase 2 and 3 is impossible). In addition, the charging protocol of Mode 3 charging (see IEC 61851-1) makes no distinction between 1 or 3 phases either. The protocol (=communication between car and charger) only controls the Amps. So there is no way the software could 'detect' whether it is connected to 1 or 3-phase. So there really should be no difference between being connected to a 1-phase 32A or a 3-phase 32A charger: in both cases you should get the same charging power/speed.

If you do see a difference: it is 100% the charger, not the i-Pace, that makes the difference.

What could be the case is that the 3-phase charger that you experienced slower charging at, as compared to the other 1-phase charger, is that the 3-phase charger could be equipped with load balancing/smart charging software, which limits the available amps if multiple cars are charging at the same charger cluster (e.g. charging stations with two sockets, charging plaza's etc.), and/or if the building that the charger is sharing the power grid connection with (e.g. residential home), is consuming a significant amount of power, that the charger Amps are limited by the smart charging software.
 
#309 ·
MartijnEV said:
Nonsense: there is no risk in being connected to 3-phases versus 1-phase, and the Jaguar engineers did not make any mistake in the AC charging setup. This is why: there is no way the i-Pace hardware or software could detect whether it is connected to 1 or 3 phases. Physically only phase 1 is connected (see the socket in the car inlet: the bottom two holes - those are for phase 2 and phase 3 on three-phase cars - don't have contact bushings at all, so 'sensing' presence of phase 2 and 3 is impossible). In addition, the charging protocol of Mode 3 charging (see IEC 61851-1) makes no distinction between 1 or 3 phases either. The protocol (=communication between car and charger) only controls the Amps. So there is no way the software could 'detect' whether it is connected to 1 or 3-phase. So there really should be no difference between being connected to a 1-phase 32A or a 3-phase 32A charger: in both cases you should get the same charging power/speed.

If you do see a difference: it is 100% the charger, not the i-Pace, that makes the difference.

What could be the case is that the 3-phase charger that you experienced slower charging at, as compared to the other 1-phase charger, is that the 3-phase charger could be equipped with load balancing/smart charging software, which limits the available amps if multiple cars are charging at the same charger cluster (e.g. charging stations with two sockets, charging plaza's etc.), and/or if the building that the charger is sharing the power grid connection with (e.g. residential home), is consuming a significant amount of power, that the charger Amps are limited by the smart charging software.
Well reality is that so far on all public 22kW chargers and I have tried multiple including the one at work very often that I am getting 3-4% instead of the expected 8-9% charge. At home I tracked it both on App (showing 7-11%) and in Excel over a long period and I am getting to 5.5kW average all the way to 100% so till 85% it was running slighly above 7kW and that is on a 1x 35A home connection.

So call it nonsense and I hope you are right but so far my experience is that there is certainly some truth to it!!!
 
#311 ·
Jelle v/d Meer said:
MartijnEV said:
Nonsense: there is no risk in being connected to 3-phases versus 1-phase, and the Jaguar engineers did not make any mistake in the AC charging setup. This is why: there is no way the i-Pace hardware or software could detect whether it is connected to 1 or 3 phases. Physically only phase 1 is connected (see the socket in the car inlet: the bottom two holes - those are for phase 2 and phase 3 on three-phase cars - don't have contact bushings at all, so 'sensing' presence of phase 2 and 3 is impossible). In addition, the charging protocol of Mode 3 charging (see IEC 61851-1) makes no distinction between 1 or 3 phases either. The protocol (=communication between car and charger) only controls the Amps. So there is no way the software could 'detect' whether it is connected to 1 or 3-phase. So there really should be no difference between being connected to a 1-phase 32A or a 3-phase 32A charger: in both cases you should get the same charging power/speed.

If you do see a difference: it is 100% the charger, not the i-Pace, that makes the difference.

What could be the case is that the 3-phase charger that you experienced slower charging at, as compared to the other 1-phase charger, is that the 3-phase charger could be equipped with load balancing/smart charging software, which limits the available amps if multiple cars are charging at the same charger cluster (e.g. charging stations with two sockets, charging plaza's etc.), and/or if the building that the charger is sharing the power grid connection with (e.g. residential home), is consuming a significant amount of power, that the charger Amps are limited by the smart charging software.
Well reality is that so far on all public 22kW chargers and I have tried multiple including the one at work very often that I am getting 3-4% instead of the expected 8-9% charge. At home I tracked it both on App (showing 7-11%) and in Excel over a long period and I am getting to 5.5kW average all the way to 100% so till 85% it was running slighly above 7kW and that is on a 1x 35A home connection.

So call it nonsense and I hope you are right but so far my experience is that there is certainly some truth to it!!!
My apologies for using the word 'nonsense', that is not a nice word I realize.
I just wanted to make clear that there is really no difference at all for the i-Pace between being connected to a 1 phase or a 3 phase supply. The i-Pace simply can not detect by any means whether a second and third phase are present or not. Not physically and not in the Mode 3 protocol between car and charger.

What you are experiencing is for 100% sure caused by the charger. If you don't get 32A on a '22kW' public charger, it is simply not supplying 32A but limited to a lower amperage. This is why: In the Netherlands Many '22kW' chargers are listed in apps etc. as '22kW' chargers, which in fact stands for: 3-phase 32A. The problem is that this in many cases refers to the network connection of the charger unit. And as most of the public '22kW' chargers have two charging sockets, this network connection has to be shared between the two sockets. In The Netherlands a usual network connection is 3x35A. And if these chargers are not load balanced, and many still aren't, this means that in reality those chargers do not supply 32A per socket, but 16A per socket so the total (incl some spare Amps for the contoller, RFID receiver, modem etc) will not exceed the 35A of the network connection. If a charger IS load balanced, and newer models are most of the times, it is possible to supply the full 32A to a single socket (of the two), only if the other socket is not in use. If a second EV is connected to the other socket however, the load balancing controller will reduce the power to socket A, so socket B will get a reasonable amount of power as well. Depending of how many Amps both EV's are consuming the load balancer will distribute the total available 32A over both sockets as fair as possible. Result: less than 7kW to a single phase charging EV such as the i-Pace.
Your home charger does not have all the issues described above, except load balancing between the house power consumption and the charger power consumption, so the total will not exceed the 25A/35A/40A of your 3x25A or 1x35A/40A house grid connection. Effectively this means that at home you will be able to charge to the full available 32A (7kW) on your 1x35A/40A home power supply during the night when dryer, dish washer etc are finished with their tasks.
Hope this clarifies.
 
#313 ·
scm said:
Blimey, seems you need a degree in electrical engineering to run an i-Pace! ;)
This is not i-Pace specific :)
True for all EV's :)

But it is not as difficult as it seems: the InControl Remote App should show how fast your i-Pace is charging.
And all charging apps should indicate the right amount of available charging power for each charging station. At the moment many of those apps don't unfortunately.
 
#314 ·
mjc said:
Baikar said:
I think this is the supplied cable.
This is how the UK Mode 2 Home Charging Cable that comes with the vehicle as standard looks:


For those in the UK that have this charging unit, is it waterproof? The label on the cable has a symbol that implies it isn't but the unit in the symbol looks different to the one supplied. The unit itself looks reasonably well made and as if it might be watertight?
 
#315 ·
scm said:
Blimey, seems you need a degree in electrical engineering to run an i-Pace! ;)
It's like everything else is today. Once you get it set up, it becomes simple. Getting setup is complicated because it's new.
It stays simple until...

THEY CHANGE THE $^$%# OPERATING SYSTEM AND YOU HAVE TO LEARN EVERYTHING AGAIN FROM SCRATCH!!! :twisted:

Seriously, nearly all owners will do nearly all their charging at home. Remote charging at CCS stations is easy.
So once you get your "Smart" 32 amp or bigger L2 EVSE installed at home, you just do all your timed charging from the phone.

After using EVs since 2013, for me EVs are WAY easier to refuel than gas and especially diesel cars. I wake up each morning with a "full tank". No driving out of my way to a petrol station, waiting in line, fuel on my hands, fuel on the paint, people begging for money for drugs ("spare some money for gas so I can get home?" is really for booze or drugs), or worse of all, getting the wrong fuel either by the owner or the station with an expensive repair bill, warm up the car in the garage without dying of CO poisoning.
 
#317 ·
scm said:
MartijnEV said:
scm said:
Blimey, seems you need a degree in electrical engineering to run an i-Pace! ;)
This is not i-Pace specific :)
True for all EV's :)
True, but I wouldn't entertain any EV but the i-Pace. ;)
But only when I can fully recharge in 5 minutes, like my F-Type. :D
10 mins to drive to the garage. If lucky then you can use a pump straight away, if not, hang on for 5 mins while the guy fills his car then goes and pay for it. He gets stuck in the queue waiting for someone who has done their daily shopping and is arguing with the till assistant because he wants to buy ****, but doesn't look 25. He gives up with the **** and pays up for the shopping. There is quite a queue at the till now :-(

Finally you get to the till and they have run out of paper in the till so you wait a bit longer for them to change it. You eventually pay your £80.00 to get 300 miles in your car.

Getting back to your car you are blocked in by the guy in front, fortunately he doesn't take long so you are on your way back home. 10 mins later you are home. That took around 30mins in all.

I got home last night and plugged my I-Pace in, took less than 1 minute to get the cable out and plug it in. It was fully charged in the morning and didn't really take any time at all. As for cost.....
 
#318 ·
Of course, if you're charging during a long drive you'll have a lot longer to wait than that 30 minute worst case scenario you've invented. ;)
I get my gas en route from a shopping trip and at that time of day there are very few customers and the till has never run out of paper. :D
 
#319 ·
scm said:
Of course, if you're charging during a long drive you'll have a lot longer to wait than that 30 minute worst case scenario you've invented. ;)
I get my gas en route from a shopping trip and at that time of day there are very few customers and the till has never run out of paper. :D
Wasn't an invented scenario. Happened to me only yesterday when filling up my Range Rover, and not the first time something similar has happened.

I tend not to do long trips. I did go down to London to see Paul McCartney recently at the O2. We stayed at the Intercontinental that is linked to the O2. I gave the keys for the I-Pace to the concierge. In the morning he returned them to me with my car that had been fully charged overnight by the hotel at no cost to me. Can't see them doing that with an ICE car :)
 
#320 ·
Hi all,

New to the forum...

I have an I-PACE on order, due April, and my dealer is asking me if I want him to arrange a Home charger. Tempted by avoiding the hassle by letting him deal with it, but looking at Chargemaster reviews doesn't fill me with confidence.

I don't have self-generation, although might in the future. The Zappi unit gets good reviews, and I'm open to switching to an EV tariff if it saves money overall.

Would appreciate any guidance!
 
#321 ·
Just had word this morning from my dealer that delivery of my I Pace is possibly going to be 1 month ahead of schedule, I also don't have solar panels etc but I am considering Octopus with a Zappi, the Zappi seems to have more features, timed charging etc and I will need to speak to them sometime soon, but others on here already have both Octopus and a Zappi so be good to get real life feedback.
 
#322 ·
ChrisMc said:
Just had word this morning from my dealer that delivery of my I Pace is possibly going to be 1 month ahead of schedule, I also don't have solar panels etc but I am considering Octopus with a Zappi, the Zappi seems to have more features, timed charging etc and I will need to speak to them sometime soon, but others on here already have both Octopus and a Zappi so be good to get real life feedback.
Great news, I just picked mine up last week and at the moment I've been using the supplied home charger and some local fast chargers.

I'm with Octopus at the moment and can definitely recommend them. The 4 hour cheap rate may not suit everyone depending on how many miles you need to recover each night but I'm still only paying 14p/KWh peak compared with the 30p/KWh local chargers. I'm also waiting on the latest zappi charger which is more expensive than the old model but as of 2019 there are new regulations for home chargers. This now makes the old unit more expensive to install. I'll be able to answer more when I have the new charger installed next month.

If you go with Octopus feel free to use my code and we both receive £50.

share.octopus.energy/smart-ram-91

Anymore questions just ask.
 
#323 ·
Baikar said:
ChrisMc said:
Just had word this morning from my dealer that delivery of my I Pace is possibly going to be 1 month ahead of schedule, I also don't have solar panels etc but I am considering Octopus with a Zappi, the Zappi seems to have more features, timed charging etc and I will need to speak to them sometime soon, but others on here already have both Octopus and a Zappi so be good to get real life feedback.
Great news, I just picked mine up last week and at the moment I've been using the supplied home charger and some local fast chargers.

I'm with Octopus at the moment and can definitely recommend them. The 4 hour cheap rate may not suit everyone depending on how many miles you need to recover each night but I'm still only paying 14p/KWh peak compared with the 30p/KWh local chargers. I'm also waiting on the latest zappi charger which is more expensive than the old model but as of 2019 there are new regulations for home chargers. This now makes the old unit more expensive to install. I'll be able to answer more when I have the new charger installed next month.

If you go with Octopus feel free to use my code and we both receive £50.

share.octopus.energy/smart-ram-91

Anymore questions just ask.
Thanks Baikar for the info, would be good to hear about costs etc when your Zappi is installed. The Octopus rates seem to be cheaper than I am paying now and the off peak cheap night rate they do is worth using, wish it was more than 4 hours though.
 
#324 ·
I would recommend a charger that allows to to set a timer to then take advantage of night time rates if you do sign up for an EV electricity deal. I have a Wallbox Pulsar which can be controlled via an App and the Zappi us also good reviews although it currently needs to be set from the charger itself unless you go for an elaborate setup with the hub. There was talk of a new version coming out but where I was told it was stand alone, someone else was told it needed the hub as well.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top